ASM Annual Preview

[clonegeek]

What's wrong with her? There isn't a lot of difference between 2010 and 2020 so it's no surprise that her girl out of time gimmick faded fast - honestly, they overdid that in the first place, she seemed to be a Pokemon Gen 1er, but by the time she went into the bunker it should've already been on generation 3 - and Netscape had already fallen out of favour, it would've made more sense for that to refer to Internet Explorer, which has been directly replaced by Microsoft Edge and ditched for Google Chrome by most users.

Her current status quo of being a reporter working for Jonah and living with her brother works just fine. And you have an ironic dynamic there too, as despite not knowing that the girl he calls Analog is Silk, he is a fan of Silk, unlike Spider-Man when he didn't know Spidey was Peter.

Her origin for starters

[Spider-Tiger]

I may misunderstand the point you're trying to make here."making moral judgements the basis for characterization" Is something I don't understand what you mean. Characters have characterization, and we make moral judgments based on that characterization, not the other way around. Carnage kills people,, so he is a bad person. Your example just confuses me. MJ as initially written wasn't passed on because of some ethical problem but a values mismatch. Peter was always presented as this serious person who wanted a wife and family, while MJ was presenting as an unserious person looking for fun. It's not a judgment as much as a mismatch. I would say the same thing is the primary problem between Felicia and Peter. Ignoring the actual moral problems she sometimes have, the primary issue is just that what she wants and what Peter wants out of life is different, and it was the same with MJ as initially presented.

I'm not sure you can separate the moral considerations of the time from the "values mismatch." Mary Jane wasn't a thief or a murderer. She was, at best, a free-spirit and flirtatious and forward. There was a pretty intentional direction by Stan to portray those characteristics in a caricaturish negative light (as being selfish and shallow) and to pigeonhole the women to sexist Betty and Veronica archetypes. Because, from Stan's perspective, Mary Jane's free-spirit hippy dippy "nobody's girl" behavior automatically made her the "bad" girl. It's why Conway, who was many years younger and would have grown up during the sexual revolution of the 1960s, took a far more multi-faceted and sympathetic approach to the character.

The "values mismatch" is more clear cut with Felicia Hardy who is classically a thief. However, my point is when you start delving into love interest "morality", you start getting into all sorts of slut-shaming and purity test nonsense that should have no place in these books.

It's just a question of how much you want to engage with the material. Some,including you if I understand correctly, have taken the probably more wise position that "it's out of chracter, therefore it's bad, therefore I don't care what it says, just fix it". I, in my foolishness to grab as many people as possible, tend to want to engage the material and explain exactly why it's bad in addition to it being out of character in two different ways, to emphasize just how bad it is, and probably out of fear that the "wrong" fix will be applied. Like once you confimr the Paul relationship it's not enough for her to leave him because of what the start of that relationship says about her. You have to undo that confirmation somehow. This is probably why this situation bothers me so much. PAul is temporary. OMD's days are numbered, They will find their way back together after wasting our time. But I'm worried about that long term damage that may never go addressed if the wrong interpretation reigns.

I'm sort of apathetic to the stories these days. Yeah, it's mildly frustrating and dissapointing, but I think the foundation for these characters was largely set in stone decades ago. What's going on today is just a facade of continuity because Spider-man can never go out of print. The Spider-Man comics have been spinning wheels for a long time now. So I care less about "explaining" and "fixing" and more about just getting back to telling good stories worth the cover price they're charging.

[Lee]

Because Spider-Tiger is responding in good faith.

We said the exact same thing. He quoted me and said I was right.

Like Frontier said, "actively and properly engage with what people are saying".

If you disagree when I say it but agree when Spider-Tiger says it then you're not engaging with what is being said.

[Frontier]

What is sad is Peter is dating currently one of the big 3 and even though marvel is churning out variants it seems no one really cares

It's kind of funny how despite hooking Peter and Felicia up Wells has still spent way more time giving MJ screentime and had another writer come in to write two issues focused on Peter and Felicia's relationship.

[Matt14teg]

It's kind of funny how despite hooking Peter and Felicia up Wells has still spent way more time giving MJ screentime and had another writer come in to write two issues focused on Peter and Felicia's relationship.

Yeah they're probably gonna delegate her to a sad stick soon when they either injure her or something like that.

[Kevinroc]

Yeah they're probably gonna delegate her to a sad stick soon when they either injure her or something like that.

That's about what I'm expecting. They don't care about Felicia. They just care about causing Peter pain, no matter how unearned it is (narratively speaking). If Felicia does end up in the hospital, I expect Peter will talk about how much he loves her and blame himself for what happened. And it will be just as full of hot air as everything else in this run.

[Mercwmouth12]

That's about what I'm expecting. They don't care about Felicia. They just care about causing Peter pain, no matter how unearned it is (narratively speaking). If Felicia does end up in the hospital, I expect Peter will talk about how much he loves her and blame himself for what happened. And it will be just as full of hot air as everything else in this run.

what would be worse is a status quo shift and she gets some sins and goes evil again or forgets who Peter is

[Garlador]

what would be worse is a status quo shift and she gets some sins and goes evil again or forgets who Peter is

Marvel did say they want things to go in "cycles", so imagine how much they could milk Felicia breaking bad again and they can do their own "Gotham War" between Spider-Man and Black Cat. Boom, her status quo for the next year practical writes itself.

[Mercwmouth12]

Marvel did say they want things to go in "cycles", so imagine how much they could milk Felicia breaking bad again and they can do their own "Gotham War" between Spider-Man and Black Cat. Boom, her status quo for the next year practical writes itself.

Prediction time: We have 2 returning classic villains in the gang war arc. Won't be any B or lower listers like Puma or boomerang. Probably Kingpin and Green Goblin. Thoughts on who the 2 could be if not these 2?

though Felicia going Queen Pin would stink it would be interesting to see Jackpot vs Black Cat

[clonegeek]

Prediction time: We have 2 returning classic villains in the gang war arc. Won't be any B or lower listers like Puma or boomerang. Probably Kingpin and Green Goblin. Thoughts on who the 2 could be if not these 2?

though Felicia going Queen Pin would stink it would be interesting to see Jackpot vs Black Cat

When was the last time Puma ever showed up?

[Mercwmouth12]

When was the last time Puma ever showed up?

In the hunted storyline
But also don't think we'll get it but they never did follow up on the mobius and lizard team up from beyond

But can you imagine if someone like Paul or Ned was given the sins after Peter is freed from them or even Felicia? Youd have a new type of Green Goblin while keeping Norman good for another year

[Garlador]

In the hunted storyline
But can you imagine if someone like Paul or Ned was given the sins after Peter is freed from them or even Felicia? Youd have a new type of Green Goblin while keeping Norman good for another year

MJ and Liz could bond over their partners both becoming Green Goblins. Sounds like a typical Spider-Man thing to do.

[Mercwmouth12]

MJ and Liz could bond over their partners both becoming Green Goblins. Sounds like a typical Spider-Man thing to do.

I think the sins will get unleashed onto the city infecting citizens and it brings out their dark side. Doesn't go full goblin but makes them kind of evil. Normans guilty because his sickness has infected the city

[stillanerd]

If the spoilers are accurate, and I have no reason to doubt the credibility of the poster who provided them, then Paul is a bigot. (As Marvel themselves have said for decades, anti-mutant sentiment is bigotry.)

Are people really defending this?

Yeah, if the goal is for readers to actually like Paul despite the fact that's he's in a relationship with Spider-Man's long-time and most recognizable love interest, then the folks at Marvel are doing a crappy job of actually getting readers to like him.

Then again, has Paul even come across as being likable? After all, when we're first introduced to him, MJ's suddenly in a relationship and raising two kids with him without any explanation whatsoever. Next time we see him, he's planning on going to Peter's apartment to confront Peter about him "stalking" and "harassing" MJ, with an implication that he violently lashed out at Peter before, only to then pay off Gus the psycho debt collector via Vimeo after hearing Peter was recovering from injuries (and BTW, where did Paul get so much money to start wiring $1000 dollars to pay off other people's bills?). Instead of making him seem sympathetic, the scene wound up making Paul seem like a douche. Once we learn how Peter and MJ met Paul via flashback a full year after he was introduced, he claims he was just Rabin's colleague and was sent to this world by Rabin--all of which we later learn wasn't the whole truth. Then he tells a different story about how he's actually that world's version of Rabin's son, that he was duped into helping his dad wipe out the entire human race, and then killed his father. And yet oddly enough, for a visual storytelling medium, we never saw any of Paul's actual backstory depicited on panel. All we got is what he told Peter and MJ which they, apparently, just accept on faith. Also, for MJ saying that Paul is a "good person" like Peter because they both feel "guilt," it's not even comparable when you consider that Peter, as Spider-Man, as spent years of his life dedicated to stoping crime and saving lives often at the cost of his own personal happiness.

What this does look like, however, is the set-up for making Paul into a supervillain down the road. You've got the attempted parallels between Peter and Paul being "guilt-ridden" scientists who channel that guilt in different ways, the obvious "robbing Peter to pay Paul" when it comes to Mary Jane, that he's the son of another supervillain, that Paul has a "super power" via his knowledge of using reality-bending "quantum symbology," and his and MJ's two adopted kids have been erased from existence. That last part could be a set-up for him wanting to secretly use his quantum symobology to recreate those kids without MJ knowing. There could be a later reveal that, contrary to what Paul told MJ, it was his research into untaping the potentional of quantum symbology that ended wiped out the human race on his world, that his dad was the one who tried to stop him, and that Paul accidentially killed him during the confrontation. Paul could even justify this by saying, "My enthusiasm made me prone to mistakes, but I know better now. I can make this work." And if you really wanted to go even further down the villain road, you could also reveal that Paul was using his knowledge of quantum symbology to tweak both Peter and MJ's memories and personalities.

Wishful thinking? Perhaps. Then again, I don't see Paul as a viable supporting character, anyway. If you look at the rest of Peter's supporting characters, they all come from grounded, real-world origins and backgrounds. Having MJ's new boyfriend be described as "the last survivor from a post-apocalyptic, alternate dimension" is totally incongruent to this.

[Frontier]

Yeah, if the goal is for readers to actually like Paul despite the fact that's he's in a relationship with Spider-Man's long-time and most recognizable love interest, then the folks at Marvel are doing a crappy job of actually getting readers to like him.

Then again, has Paul even come across as being likable? After all, when we're first introduced to him, MJ's suddenly in a relationship and raising two kids with him without any explanation whatsoever. Next time we see him, he's planning on going to Peter's apartment to confront Peter about him "stalking" and "harassing" MJ, with an implication that he violently lashed out at Peter before, only to then pay off Gus the psycho debt collector via Vimeo after hearing Peter was recovering from injuries (and BTW, where did Paul get so much money to start wiring $1000 dollars to pay off other people's bills?). Instead of making him seem sympathetic, the scene wound up making Paul seem like a douche. Once we learn how Peter and MJ met Paul via flashback a full year after he was introduced, he claims he was just Rabin's colleague and was sent to this world by Rabin--all of which we later learn wasn't the whole truth. Then he tells a different story about how he's actually that world's version of Rabin's son, that he was duped into helping his dad wipe out the entire human race, and then killed his father. And yet oddly enough, for a visual storytelling medium, we never saw any of Paul's actual backstory depicited on panel. All we got is what he told Peter and MJ which they, apparently, just accept on faith. Also, for MJ saying that Paul is a "good person" like Peter because they both feel "guilt," it's not even comparable when you consider that Peter, as Spider-Man, as spent years of his life dedicated to stoping crime and saving lives often at the cost of his own personal happiness.

What this does look like, however, is the set-up for making Paul into a supervillain down the road. You've got the attempted parallels between Peter and Paul being "guilt-ridden" scientists who channel that guilt in different ways, the obvious "robbing Peter to pay Paul" when it comes to Mary Jane, that he's the son of another supervillain, that Paul has a "super power" via his knowledge of using reality-bending "quantum symbology," and his and MJ's two adopted kids have been erased from existence. That last part could be a set-up for him wanting to secretly use his quantum symobology to recreate those kids without MJ knowing. There could be a later reveal that, contrary to what Paul told MJ, it was his research into untaping the potentional of quantum symbology that ended wiped out the human race on his world, that his dad was the one who tried to stop him, and that Paul accidentially killed him during the confrontation. Paul could even justify this by saying, "My enthusiasm made me prone to mistakes, but I know better now. I can make this work." And if you really wanted to go even further down the villain road, you could also reveal that Paul was using his knowledge of quantum symbology to tweak both Peter and MJ's memories and personalities.

Wishful thinking? Perhaps. Then again, I don't see Paul as a viable supporting character, anyway. If you look at the rest of Peter's supporting characters, they all come from grounded, real-world origins and backgrounds. Having MJ's new boyfriend be described as "the last survivor from a post-apocalyptic, alternate dimension" is totally incongruent to this.

If the Jackpot mini builds up to Paul turning evil and being her Final Boss that would be the best way of salvaging it in my opinion.