Will Near Extinction Always Be The X-Men's Status Quo?

[Havok83]

No. It hasnt reallly been their status quo for most of their history. The only times I think that could apply is

M-Day through AvX (2006 - 2012)
IVX era (2016)
post-Disassembled/Age of X-man (2019)
Fall of X (2023)

Beyond that, the X-men have never faced near-extinction as a status quo

[Huntsman Spider]

hmm, i wonder

There's a line of thought that goes "superhero comics are a place we got to in absence of hope to see heroes triumph over villains so that we know that when we, real people in the real world, stand up to villainy we have a chance to overcome it." This is fine and good when applied to some stories, but surely not the whole medium always and forever?

It doesn't apply to Watchmen, for one, the comic where capes can't even save their own world, let alone inspire anyone.

Think of Little Red Riding Hood. The original story had a gory downer of an ending, and the more famous version has a happy one. Which one is better, would you say? The cautionary tale or the tale of good overcoming evil? They both have their merits, i think, but the one where everyone makes it out okay is certainly more marketable. You can't sell big bad wolf mugs and pajamas off the gory story.

I think requiring stories to make us feel good is faulty. Stories should make us feel, period. I was feeling sorry for Spidey who was\is going though it under Wells. I'm feeling down about my fave mutants are going thru. Those are good and valid things to feel, and if the story are aiming at that, they're just as legit as stories of triumph that make us wanna fist pump. Scarlet Witch is doing just that rn. And Moon Knight, for one.

I'd be real bummed if all Marvel tales were flattened like Little Red Riding Hood. Sometimes a cold shower to the senses is just what the doc ordered

Fair enough. A lot of us here are just worried about Marvel editorial backsliding into bad habits with X-Men. "Feared and hated" is always going to be the status quo, but it shouldn't be like the X-Men or mutants as a whole have absolutely no allies or advocates among the rest of humanity (let alone the nonmutant superhero community) willing to fight for or alongside them. At the very least, the Fall of X does seem to have more of those nonmutant superhero allies rallying with the X-Men/mutants against Orchis, particularly given Orchis's intent to wipe them out as well once they've finished off the mutants, so that's a positive for me.

I don't think anyone wants to "flatten" the X-Men, it's more the direction of the book.

Does the direction have to be extinction?

It doesn't have to be lighthearted it can be dark.

Can't the direction be Mutants rule the world and they're evil dicks? I think that would be interesting.

Good point on the last one. That would be an interesting way of showing that, as mutants are ultimately just as human as anyone else, they are just as prone to succumbing to the vicious cycles of abuse, revenge, and violence. It would be pretty bleak, but it would also be reminiscent of real-life revolutions that were intended to topple oppressive powers, only for the rebels in their triumph to become every bit as oppressive as the regimes they toppled . . . which is a warning worth heeding.

[charliehustle415]

No. It hasnt reallly been their status quo for most of their history. The only times I think that could apply is

M-Day through AvX (2006 - 2012)
IVX era (2016)
post-Disassembled/Age of X-man (2019)
Fall of X (2023)

Beyond that, the X-men have never faced near-extinction as a status quo

2006! that's nearly 20 years, that means there are teenagers who only know that status quo.

and this is what I mean, think about the timescale

[Havok83]

2006! that's nearly 20 years, that means there are teenagers who only know that status quo.

and this is what I mean, think about the timescale

Yeah but are you a teenager? The X-men existed or 40 years before that. The Extinction stuff is more of a recent phenomenom which is why I cant agree that its "always" their status quo

[Alan2099]

Sure the X-men had a different status quo for their first 40 something years, but that still leaves the last 20 years as near extinctions.

Basically, one third of the X-men's history has been in the "near extinction" phase.

[charliehustle415]

Yeah but are you a teenager? The X-men existed or 40 years before that. The Extinction stuff is more of a recent phenomenom which is why I cant agree that its "always" their status quo

Dude, I started reading in 2002. So my entire teenage and now adult life has been this status quo.

Do you really think people read the god awful Lee/Ditko run?

[Havok83]

Dude, I started reading in 2002. So my entire teenage and now adult life has been this status quo.

Do you really think people read the god awful Lee/Ditko run?

Yes people did read it. There was also a whole 30 years worth of comics after that till the mid 00s. Just bc you may have never read them doesn’t mean they didn’t exist or matter

[jwatson]

Makes sense to me. I started reading in the mid to late 90s and most stories that happened the 70s and 80s and before didn't matter to me unless they were brought up in stories i read so i can only imagine a decade later the same would be true for stories in the 80s and 90s and so on and so forth. At some point it really does just become forcing those stories on people. unless the writer makes it relevant to the current story it is kind of pointless in that it's not real history.

[charliehustle415]

Yes people did read it. There was also a whole 30 years worth of comics after that till the mid 00s. Just bc you may have never read them doesn’t mean they didn’t exist or matter

17 of those 30 years was written by a single author: Claremont and that is the only era where Mutants actually did normal stuff.

The 90's might as well be wallpaper paste, after that what else is there?

[marhawkman]

17 of those 30 years was written by a single author: Claremont and that is the only era where Mutants actually did normal stuff.

The 90's might as well be wallpaper paste, after that what else is there?

Claremont's X-men was amazing.

[charliehustle415]

Claremont's X-men was amazing.

no argument here, the X-Men felt like real people

[Triniking1234]

Sure the X-men had a different status quo for their first 40 something years, but that still leaves the last 20 years as near extinctions.

Basically, one third of the X-men's history has been in the "near extinction" phase.

If a person started reading X-Men post-Morrison and only kept up with the franchise through the latest releases then yeah, it's been rough.
I probably got lucky when I started cuz 80s stuff was available.

[Devaishwarya]

You really have to start with Graydon and Bastion's Operation Zero Tolerance in 1997 if we're counting extinction/decimation storylines. It may not have panned out as they planned but that's where it really started.

Then, the Genosha genocide happened...not extinction-level but still devastating to the mutant populace and well-being as a whole.

[Force de Phenix]

No. It hasnt reallly been their status quo for most of their history. The only times I think that could apply is

M-Day through AvX (2006 - 2012)
IVX era (2016)
post-Disassembled/Age of X-man (2019)
Fall of X (2023)

Beyond that, the X-men have never faced near-extinction as a status quo

Extinction has been a part of the X-Men's base storyline since the 1980's at least. I think Days of Future Past unleashed it into their stories forever. And the Legacy Virus and E for Extinction were also a part of this type of story.

[Devaishwarya]

Yes. Days of Future Past has to be given an honourable mention.

While not an actual outcome realised and certainly not part of the status quo at the time...the seed really germinated with that story. Writers not named Claremont just watered, fed and nurtured it into the strangling vine it has become.