Sometimes I feel it bothers Marvel that they don’t have Superman

[JudicatorPrime]

Isn't that basically what the Avengers or the Thunderbolts are these days?

Probably. Can't say. I never read TB and stopped reading Avengers after the Busiek and Perez run a few years ago. I suppose SWORD or Alpha Flight could be the Stormwatch of Marvel as well.

[JudicatorPrime]

Personally, I never saw it.

She-Hulk under Byrne was definitely a woman on the rise! That said, no, it doesn't surprise me that some don't see her in the same class as WW.

[JudicatorPrime]

Marvel had a wonder woman and in some issues a superman.(the stories went from her superman strong to her getting knocked out with a pipe. They couldn't make up their minds.) Ms america! Had stories in one title then did a crossover book with patsy walker than post war did cryptkeeper like hosting duties in other non hero titles. They even had a live model play her at events (and on covers) and she got her own teen mag. Japan gave her, her own tv show!

Both her and wonder woman came back in the 60s. DC gave her, her own title, used her in superfriends, toys and her own show. She is now the third dc "trinity" and known worldwide!

Way to go DC!

Marvel brought miss america back in the 60s also. Depowered her in invaders, made her old, got her pregent and killed her off right away! No one knows who she is today.

Way to go marvel!

Crazy how dc treated its first big female star over marvel wiping their butts and throwing away theirs!

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

I'm not a fan of bringing back many of Marvel's Golden Age characters, but I definitely thought that Miss America could have been updated and reintroduced in the modern era. (I have nothing against America Chavez, but something misses the mark with her characterization. Can't quite put my finger on it.) Even though Madelyne Joyce borrowed from Superman in the early days, I still consider her in a separate category from the derivative characters like She-Hulk, Shanna the She-Devil, Aleta, Nova II, She-Thing, Satanna, Spider-Woman (Carpenter), Carol as Captain Marvel, Her, etc., or in other words, the female versions of male Marvel characters. I can see why they wouldn't want to promote Joyce as the next WW, but if they did, I wouldn't be terribly opposed to it. But that costume needs to be retired first.

[dkrook]

I don't think so. Whenever Marvel does a Superman character they go out of their way to stack the deck against the character. Marvel doesn't want to have a successful Superman like character.

What Marvel does want....is Wonder Woman. They have been sinking an incredible amount of time and money trying get their own Wonder Woman but it doesn't seem to be working.

Yeah, after thinking about it Marvel seems to only want Hulk, and Thor as heavyweight superheroes. Sentry, Blue Marvel, and of course Hyperion. They could easily put a good writer, artist, and mandate to include the hero in the mainstream narratives. Marvel really seems scared, or uninterested.

[Cap808]

Oddly enough, I thought at one point way back, Marvel was creating it's own junior Justice League trinity with the New Warriors. Hear me out as I dodge your tomatoes:

Superman = Nova
Wonder Woman = Nita
Batman = Night Thrasher

[Gaastra]

Captain universe is pretty powerful also.

[clonegeek]

Oddly enough, I thought at one point way back, Marvel was creating it's own junior Justice League trinity with the New Warriors. Hear me out as I dodge your tomatoes:

Superman = Nova
Wonder Woman = Nita
Batman = Night Thrasher

That does oddly work

[JudicatorPrime]

Captain universe is pretty powerful also.

Yes, CU can be powerful, but how powerful typically depends on the wielder, I think. And the strength range used to have a hard cap of 50x a person's normal strength, which could still leave even someone with great superhuman strength (100 - 200 ton range) far weaker than Gladiator, Sentry, Thor, Hulk, Blue Marvel, at least two of the Hyperions, etc.

[JudicatorPrime]

Oddly enough, I thought at one point way back, Marvel was creating it's own junior Justice League trinity with the New Warriors. Hear me out as I dodge your tomatoes:

Superman = Nova
Wonder Woman = Nita
Batman = Night Thrasher

Nice. I thought they were a Marvel spin on the New Teen Titans.

[Thor-Ul]

Captain universe is pretty powerful also.

But he is more like a Green lantern? I mean there always a person chosen to be a different Captain Universe.

[Thor-Ul]

Oddly enough, I thought at one point way back, Marvel was creating it's own junior Justice League trinity with the New Warriors. Hear me out as I dodge your tomatoes:

Superman = Nova
Wonder Woman = Nita
Batman = Night Thrasher

Nice. I thought they were a Marvel spin on the New Teen Titans.

Folk tales says than in the dark days of the early 90s, a young kid called Rob Liefeld then wanted to do a team called the Young Avengers, with Vance Astro, Nita Speedball and Firestar, but evil editor Tom DeFalco had a similar idea and convinced young naive Liefeld to do a lesser book called New Mutants and then the evil Tom DeFalco went and created a team with those characters called New Warriors.

[Sutekh]

Oddly enough, I thought at one point way back, Marvel was creating it's own junior Justice League trinity with the New Warriors. Hear me out as I dodge your tomatoes:

Superman = Nova
Wonder Woman = Nita
Batman = Night Thrasher

But Nita can't be Wonder Woman, she's their Aquaman!

Does that make Vance the team's Green Lantern and Speedball their Flash?

Nova is such a Superman, 'though. Alien-powered flying tank. And yeah, Night Thrasher is a total Batman, rich athletic highly-trained tech user running his dead parents' company and all.

As for Marvel wanting to have Superman, eh. He's far from my favorite DC character. I like the Legion, the Teen Titans, Young Justice and B-Leaguers like Vixen, Booster Gold, etc. Marvel's *many* Superman clones range from mildly amusing (Gladiator, Hyperion, Blue Marvel) to completely boring to me (Sentry). And they've got plenty like Thor, Namor, Carol Danvers, Wonder Man, etc. to fill that role, so it's not like Marvel's hurting for people *who aren't riffs on Superman* in that 'flying powerhouse tank' niche.

I'm 100% more into Thor's mythological shenanigans than the 'sent his only son to Earth to save mankind' allegorical religious metaphor that is Kal-El.

[Anthony W]

I agree, that was a lost oportunity. Ms. America was no low on the powers departament, but she suffered the same treatment than most of Marvel Golden Age heroes. Marvel tried to ressurrect the brand with America Chavez as their new Miss America (of sort), but I think they commited a lot of mistakes with the character, starting with the name.

That was confusing.

Marvel loves having legacy heroes.... but they don't name her Miss America? They dress her in some jeans and a jacket and give her an origin story that is growing to Donna Troy (look it up) levels of confusion.

[clonegeek]

But Nita can't be Wonder Woman, she's their Aquaman!

Does that make Vance the team's Green Lantern and Speedball their Flash?

Nova is such a Superman, 'though. Alien-powered flying tank. And yeah, Night Thrasher is a total Batman, rich athletic highly-trained tech user running his dead parents' company and all.

As for Marvel wanting to have Superman, eh. He's far from my favorite DC character. I like the Legion, the Teen Titans, Young Justice and B-Leaguers like Vixen, Booster Gold, etc. Marvel's *many* Superman clones range from mildly amusing (Gladiator, Hyperion, Blue Marvel) to completely boring to me (Sentry). And they've got plenty like Thor, Namor, Carol Danvers, Wonder Man, etc. to fill that role, so it's not like Marvel's hurting for people *who aren't riffs on Superman* in that 'flying powerhouse tank' niche.

I'm 100% more into Thor's mythological shenanigans than the 'sent his only son to Earth to save mankind' allegorical religious metaphor that is Kal-El.

Speedball was low-key probally the most powerful member of the OG New Warriers line up.

[Cap808]

But Nita can't be Wonder Woman, she's their Aquaman!

Does that make Vance the team's Green Lantern and Speedball their Flash?

Nova is such a Superman, 'though. Alien-powered flying tank. And yeah, Night Thrasher is a total Batman, rich athletic highly-trained tech user running his dead parents' company and all.

As for Marvel wanting to have Superman, eh. He's far from my favorite DC character. I like the Legion, the Teen Titans, Young Justice and B-Leaguers like Vixen, Booster Gold, etc. Marvel's *many* Superman clones range from mildly amusing (Gladiator, Hyperion, Blue Marvel) to completely boring to me (Sentry). And they've got plenty like Thor, Namor, Carol Danvers, Wonder Man, etc. to fill that role, so it's not like Marvel's hurting for people *who aren't riffs on Superman* in that 'flying powerhouse tank' niche.

I'm 100% more into Thor's mythological shenanigans than the 'sent his only son to Earth to save mankind' allegorical religious metaphor that is Kal-El.

Vance as Green Lantern and Speedball as Flash is exactly how I saw it

How about Rage as Shazam? Crazy correlation.

Turbo as Firestorm? Ronnie Raymond and Dr. Stein…and I believe Turbo shared the suit with a young man?

Scary how it all comes together. Dun dun dun!