Sometimes I feel it bothers Marvel that they don’t have Superman

[JudicatorPrime]

I don’t know. Stan Lee wrote an African American Superman once, and that didn’t fit my idea of a Marvel Superman. The best Superman African American was Hancock. I thought that was great. But he’d always be under the stigma that hampered Blue Marvel when he first appeared. He was hounded out of the super business, by bigotry.

I admittedly liked Hancock as a Superman clone. Far more than I like Blue Marvel, Sunshine Superman, Icon, etc., if we're talking purely about characterization and backstory. Wish Marvel owned the rights. That's not to say that Hancock wasn't problematic, including the fact that his natural mate -- in the form of a White woman no less -- was his Kryptonite. (But it's the gorgeous Charlize Theron and, really, what cisgender heterosexual male wouldn't happily be weak to her element, if the Fates deemed him so lucky???)

Blue Marvel's problem is that no one will ever be curious or nostalgic about his beginnings the way that people are curious and nostalgic about Kal-El's origins. Fewer still will see the tragedy in it, even though in the real world we're still faced with overcoming those same challenges.

[Anthony W]

Not that I disagree, but General Glory says Hi! As does Ernie!

Peace

Yikes! Well at least most of the time DC can be sincere.

[ed2962]

Not that I disagree, but General Glory says Hi! As does Ernie!

Peace

Don't forget The Extremists, The Heroes of Angor, Red Tool, The Maximums, and the Red Lion!

[Nomads1]

Don't forget The Extremists, The Heroes of Angor, Red Tool, The Maximums, and the Red Lion!

Not my point. GG (and his kid partner, Ernie) was a goofy stand in for Captain America. Most that you have mentioned (I'm not familiar with Red Tool. I'm assuming he's inspired on the Red Skull?) were, IMHO, seriously and very well done. I have a special fondnessfor the Maximums, and wish DC would do more with them, such as Marvel has (once) done with the Squadron Supreme. Anyway, I was just playing Devil's Advocate, and having a little bit of fun, when commenting on Anthony W's comment.

Peace

[Thor-Ul]

Nova laying into Iron Man about Civil War was second only to Thor slapping around Iron Man because of Civil War. As for a Captain Marvel take at Marvel Prime was a great character but the resides in the Ultraverse.

Marvel never is going to publish Prime ever again. Forget he existed. Shush.

That is the difference between Marvel and DC. When DC attempts a Marvel character they do it with sincerity they really do try to make it work. The Age Of Heroes books were all very sincere takes and Sideways was a very fun take on Spider-Man. When Marvel attempts a DC character they do it with the intention of proving that Marvel is better and that the DC character is silly or at least that is what it feels like.

Not that I disagree, but General Glory says Hi! As does Ernie!

Peace

Don't forget The Extremists, The Heroes of Angor, Red Tool, The Maximums, and the Red Lion!

Honestly both editorials have their time when they homage their competition and when they also critics/spoof them, but than depends of the creative heads behind also:

Giffen and DeMatteis spoofed a lot of Marvel characters, but also put that style in their version of Defenders. And remember the french Justice League than the Thing meet during Civil War, also a spoof. And don't forget the spoofing made in the Inferior Five with the Egg's Men, the first parody of you can guess who.

If you compare the Squadron Supreme to the Great Society you could see than the Great Society is pretty much respectful than the Squadron and where the Squadron was ineffective or stupid or easy manipulable, the Great Society acted more heroically and tragic.

Different takes, with different results.

[ed2962]

Not my point. GG (and his kid partner, Ernie) was a goofy stand in for Captain America. Most that you have mentioned (I'm not familiar with Red Tool. I'm assuming he's inspired on the Red Skull?) were, IMHO, seriously and very well done. I have a special fondnessfor the Maximums, and wish DC would do more with them, such as Marvel has (once) done with the Squadron Supreme. Anyway, I was just playing Devil's Advocate, and having a little bit of fun, when commenting on Anthony W's comment.

Peace

Red Tool was a satire of Deadpool.

I think while they were well done, I don't think they were 100% serious.

[Thor-Ul]

I admittedly liked Hancock as a Superman clone. Far more than I like Blue Marvel, Sunshine Superman, Icon, etc., if we're talking purely about characterization and backstory. Wish Marvel owned the rights. That's not to say that Hancock wasn't problematic, including the fact that his natural mate -- in the form of a White woman no less -- was his Kryptonite. (But it's the gorgeous Charlize Theron and, really, what cisgender heterosexual male wouldn't happily be weak to her element, if the Fates deemed him so lucky???)

Why is that a problem? Honest question, it was not the first story I had know where two characters were the "negation" of the other.

Blue Marvel's problem is that no one will ever be curious or nostalgic about his beginnings the way that people are curious and nostalgic about Kal-El's origins. Fewer still will see the tragedy in it, even though in the real world we're still faced with overcoming those same challenges.

I think is more for the retrocotinuity exercise than demands his existence. Same as Sentry.

[Anthony W]

Don't forget The Extremists, The Heroes of Angor, Red Tool, The Maximums, and the Red Lion!

The only character I have heard of on that list is the Red Lion and he is not a hero. Are the others in this list meant to be heroes or are they just villains from the start using familiar powers and origins.

[Nomads1]

Red Tool was a satire of Deadpool.

Wasn't aware of him. Thanks.

The only character I have heard of on that list is the Red Lion and he is not a hero. Are the others in this list meant to be heroes or are they just villains from the start using familiar powers and origins.

The Heroes of Angor were part of an unofficial crossover between Marvel and DC in the 70's, and they were supposed to be versions of the Avengers (or spoofs, as they call them), while Marvel gave us the Squadron Sinister (and later the Squadron Supreme). Later, Giffen and DeMatties brought them back in JLI, and then, in JLE, gave us the Extremists, who came from the same world and were supposed to be versions of the top Marvel villains (Dr. Doom, Magneto, Sabretooth, Dr. Octopus, Dormumu...)
The Maximums were supposed to be the Avengers in a world created by Mr. Myxyplk (yeah, I know that must be spelled wrong) in Loeb and McGuiness' Batman and Superman.
And the Red Lion was Cristopher Priest's version of the Black Panther in a short run he did in JLA, a few years ago (and that I have to admit that I never read, but I knew of it).

Peace

[dkrook]

I admittedly liked Hancock as a Superman clone. Far more than I like Blue Marvel, Sunshine Superman, Icon, etc., if we're talking purely about characterization and backstory. Wish Marvel owned the rights. That's not to say that Hancock wasn't problematic, including the fact that his natural mate -- in the form of a White woman no less -- was his Kryptonite. (But it's the gorgeous Charlize Theron and, really, what cisgender heterosexual male wouldn't happily be weak to her element, if the Fates deemed him so lucky???)

Blue Marvel's problem is that no one will ever be curious or nostalgic about his beginnings the way that people are curious and nostalgic about Kal-El's origins. Fewer still will see the tragedy in it, even though in the real world we're still faced with overcoming those same challenges.

Interesting, I love Blue Marvel and yes I like Hancock as well inspite of the problematic character defects. Plus the racial shenanigans did raise an eyebrow. I recognize reversed cucking when I see it, lol! Far as the point about comic readers being receptive to expounding upon Blue Marvel's troubled origin, if well written would be great. I think it could play out wild to see what happens when earth has to confront the dynamic of having a Superman type that is hated by a large population of people �� . What would be the result of racial paranoia toward a dude that is almost a god?

[Thor-Ul]

The Heroes of Angor were part of an unofficial crossover between Marvel and DC in the 70's, and they were supposed to be versions of the Avengers (or spoofs, as they call them), while Marvel gave us the Squadron Sinister (and later the Squadron Supreme). Later, Giffen and DeMatties brought them back in JLI, and then, in JLE, gave us the Extremists, who came from the same world and were supposed to be versions of the top Marvel villains (Dr. Doom, Magneto, Sabretooth, Dr. Octopus, Dormumu...)

Don't forget also than the other survivor of that world and who had recreated them was Walt Disney, I mean, Mitch Wacky. It was something like "the Simsons predicted this" level.

The Maximums were supposed to be the Avengers in a world created by Mr. Myxyplk (yeah, I know that must be spelled wrong) in Loeb and McGuiness' Batman and Superman.

And Morrison laments not having using them as the sacrifical lamb in the first issue of Multiversity, because... Ultimatum.

And the Red Lion was Cristopher Priest's version of the Black Panther in a short run he did in JLA, a few years ago (and that I have to admit that I never read, but I knew of it).

Priest use him more in his Deathstroke series.

[Cap808]

I keep going back to Marvel vs. DC. I know Superman fought the Hulk, but on one of the covers, the AMAZING George Perez had Thor facing off against Superman.

[Sutekh]

I keep going back to Marvel vs. DC. I know Superman fought the Hulk, but on one of the covers, the AMAZING George Perez had Thor facing off against Superman.

JLA / Avengers, by, IIRC, Busiek and Perez, was amazing for a crossover between the two companies. Both groups were handled respectfully, I thought, which was a nice juggling act, as well as a few cute snarky comments about the differences between the two worlds. (Superman checking out 616 Earth with his telescopic vision. "This world seems to be smaller than our world. There's not even a Metropolis!" poking fun at how much of Marvel is based around real world cities like New York, while every DC hero seems to have their own special comic-book city like Metropolis, Gotham, Coast City, Central City, Star City, etc.)

[Nomads1]

/65

I keep going back to Marvel vs. DC. I know Superman fought the Hulk, but on one of the covers, the AMAZING George Perez had Thor facing off against Superman.

The two did face off in Avengers/JLA (which sort of coroborrates my theory of Thor supposedly being Marvel's Superman). Superman comming out on top is source of A LOT of controversy. Honestly, whoever won that, there's no way that it wouldn't upset someone (to be gentle). It's a lose/lose situation. All in all, I still love that story.

Peace

[Cap808]

If you were to 'almagamate' (see what I did there?) Captain America and Thor, you'd get Superman.