How popular are the x-characters individually?

[Doom'nGloom]

I have read many times both on this forum and on other parts of the internet that X-men is historically much more popular compared to other Marvel properties not named Spider-man. Some x-fans wear this as a badge of honor to say their favorite property is also what should be Marvel's first priority both in comics and in other media. Yet when I look at it, out of dozens and dozens of mutant characters only a handful ever get solos. I know Dazzler, Cable and X-23 got respectable runs in the past and Wolverine have always been a property within a property but aside from those Marvel almost always publish x-characters in a team setting. Most what people can hope for is a 4-5 issue mini these days. Why is it so? Is the X-men greater than the sum of its parts? Or does publishing solo series oversaturate an already saturated market? Are the x-characters even designed to work as solo acts? How many of them has a personal rogues gallery? Why isn't someone like Storm, who at one point in history outpaced Wonder Woman in terms of popularity, not getting a solo treatment?

[GoingGreen]

I think it's a bit deeper than who is and isn't a popular character, vs the history of how the character developed their popularity, how marketing has shaped the popularity, the messages behind what makes the character popular, who is drawing the character, who is writing the character, etc etc.

A low selling Storm book doesn't reflect the character's popularity, it means Storm's book isn't a popular book for various reasons.

Another example of different development determining what does and doesn't work: The messaging behind the X-Men as a whole is all about overcoming oppression. It's been that way since inception. Villains for X-Men who arise typically hate Mutants, not a single Mutant. So the villain of one is the villain of all, and a small core team of mutants join forces to take down a threat to mutant kind. On the contrary, solo book heroes - the villains typically target one specific hero for various reasons.

It's all about what made the character, and what continues to work best for them. Spider-Man doesn't have the same fight as mutantkind and mutants don't have the same fight as Spider-Man. No matter how hard they try to make Dark Web happen.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

What people will buy as a comic is not necessarily equivalent to the character in question's name recognition.

People don't really buy Captain America and Iron Man comics compared to Spider-Man or Batman or X-Men as a group, but they pushed movies alright, and can probably move other merchandise. Likewise, maybe people aren't buying a Storm solo, but that doesn't mean she can't move t-shirts.

Comics is very insular and the people in charge of comics generally aren't good at reaching out and expanding bases, so what sells doesn't change much. On top of that, the market has constricted such that only the stuff that matters sells. I am more of a comic guy than the average person with money for entertainment by ALOT (as is anyone on a board like this) and even I am going to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th guess even a comic that is supposed to be really important. So with that said, we know, and comics bean counters know, that a Dazzler solo doesn't really need to be a thing in 2023, since the majority of the people most likely to buy a comic are still not likely to buy just any and every thing that gets pumped out.


Heck, she's by far my favorite character and I might not even buy all of this upcoming Jean Grey mini-solo if the 1st issue makes me mad, which it most likely will.


You want a comic to sell, put Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker, Logan, or X-Men as a group on it (and pray).

[yogaflame]

I'd say there are several tiers.

You have Wolverine all the way at the top. Even casuals across the world love him.

Two of his derivatives/associated characters have ridden his coattails to great heights, moving lots of merch/comics/even films, but are less important/almost negligible to the core franchise/story:

Deadpool/X23

Then you have the central/core X-Men who are nowhere near as marketable in terms of singular adventures/comics, but are well known and beloved, even for casuals/the masses, and have moved merch for decades:

Storm/Jean/Cyclops/Xavier/Magneto

Then you have other important X-Men, but they are not quite as recognizable to the masses, despite some high profile pop cultural adaptations, but still have rabid fanbases within the genre aware:

Cable/Rogue/Gambit/Jubilee/Beast/Emma/Iceman/Psylocke/Shadowkat/Bishop/Nightcrawler/Colossus

Then you have additional X-Men and affiliates who are still relevant to the story, but have much less popular awareness among causals/the masses, but still have reasonable fandoms within the genre aware:

Angel-Archangel/Domino/Dazzler/Polaris/Havok/Rachel/Warpath/X-Factor/X-Force/Excalibur/The New Mutants/Generation X/Academy

They you have characters that are late additions and/or have little impact on the overall franchise, nearly zero popular awareness, only the most niche fandom within the genre aware:

Everyone else.

[Rift]

Hellion is the most popular X-Man. When I go to another forum on this site, I end up seeing posts about him. Even on the DC boards. The people can't get enough of him.

[Doom'nGloom]

I think it's a bit deeper than who is and isn't a popular character, vs the history of how the character developed their popularity, how marketing has shaped the popularity, the messages behind what makes the character popular, who is drawing the character, who is writing the character, etc etc.

A low selling Storm book doesn't reflect the character's popularity, it means Storm's book isn't a popular book for various reasons.

Another example of different development determining what does and doesn't work: The messaging behind the X-Men as a whole is all about overcoming oppression. It's been that way since inception. Villains for X-Men who arise typically hate Mutants, not a single Mutant. So the villain of one is the villain of all, and a small core team of mutants join forces to take down a threat to mutant kind. On the contrary, solo book heroes - the villains typically target one specific hero for various reasons.

It's all about what made the character, and what continues to work best for them. Spider-Man doesn't have the same fight as mutantkind and mutants don't have the same fight as Spider-Man. No matter how hard they try to make Dark Web happen.

So being a team is basically baked into X-men's dough. I get it. Batman is about one mans crusade about crime and corruption in his city but that didn't stop DC from giving every batkid their own book over the years. I think focusing on X-men so much as a team didn't give Marvel enough room to fully utilize its characters. It also doesn't help that there are so many mutants fighting for panel time nowadays.

Hellion is the most popular X-Man. When I go to another forum on this site, I end up seeing posts about him. Even on the DC boards. The people can't get enough of him.

I have heard many times that Bruce Wayne, the man famous for his many sidekicks over the years, once asked to be Hellion's sidekick.

[Saithor]

So being a team is basically baked into X-men's dough. I get it. Batman is about one mans crusade about crime and corruption in his city but that didn't stop DC from giving every batkid their own book over the years. I think focusing on X-men so much as a team didn't give Marvel enough room to fully utilize its characters. It also doesn't help that there are so many mutants fighting for panel time nowadays.

I mean you can make an entire franchise off of the Summers family tree alone. The small one, not the one involving the Pyms and the Maximoffs

[yogaflame]

So being a team is basically baked into X-men's dough. I get it. Batman is about one mans crusade about crime and corruption in his city but that didn't stop DC from giving every batkid their own book over the years. I think focusing on X-men so much as a team didn't give Marvel enough room to fully utilize its characters. It also doesn't help that there are so many mutants fighting for panel time nowadays.

Yes, like the FF, the X-Men are primarily a team concept, and really only Wolverine and to a lesser extent Deadpool and X-23 have broken out of that box. Given how the X-Men steamrolled all the rest of comicdom from late 70's until the late 90's, it wasn't necessarily a bad idea to keep them together for the most part. Even though Cable and to a lesser extent Gambit and Bishop, not to mention Dazzler, have had some noteworthy comics runs over the years, they never quite broke through to the same extent, at least not for long.

The team concept allows many types of people to gravitate around a book/product, whereas solo heroes are usually one flavor. The best solo characters resonate deeply enough to get that mass appeal, but team members are specific and usually only resonate with a percentage of the masses. I mean, if Marvel had done a Storm solo book in the mid 80's, would it have sold as well as Uncanny? Under Claremont with great artists? Maybe. But overall Storm got to her popularity within the context of a team. She's a beast within the black/POC communities, and the LGBT+ community, but middle America probably needs a Wolverine to help that medicine go down, if you know what I mean. Could a four-quadrant Storm book/show/film be made? Absolutely. Is Disney/Marvel leaving money on the table as far as she is concerned? Absolutely. But Marvel now is a very different beast from Marvel 30, 40, or 50 years ago. Even 15 years ago.

X-Men has developed dozens upon dozens of characters, that, given the chance, could easily match if not exceed the success of Iron Man, Thor, Captain Marvel, etc, nevermind the Shang Chi's, Ms. Marvels, and Ant Mans. I guess we'll just have to see how things go from here. Unfortunately, its taken so long for the X-Men to get proper adaptations in the MCU that the party might be over before they even get a chance in this modern arena.

[GoingGreen]

So being a team is basically baked into X-men's dough. I get it. Batman is about one mans crusade about crime and corruption in his city but that didn't stop DC from giving every batkid their own book over the years. I think focusing on X-men so much as a team didn't give Marvel enough room to fully utilize its characters. It also doesn't help that there are so many mutants fighting for panel time nowadays.

Yeah, that and also audiences. Some are into ensemble casts with many heroes and common enemies, and some are into heroes who fly solo and protect their nearest and dearest or even the world on their own. There's really no simple answer, and given the popularity of all of the IPs, I don't think anyone of the "A-Listers" were failed or treated poorly.

I think a more defined debate could be about the different X-Men characters' popularity. Why are some X-Men characters so popular, some get ignored, some are hated, etc.

[Force de Phenix]

I have read many times both on this forum and on other parts of the internet that X-men is historically much more popular compared to other Marvel properties not named Spider-man. Some x-fans wear this as a badge of honor to say their favorite property is also what should be Marvel's first priority both in comics and in other media. Yet when I look at it, out of dozens and dozens of mutant characters only a handful ever get solos. I know Dazzler, Cable and X-23 got respectable runs in the past and Wolverine have always been a property within a property but aside from those Marvel almost always publish x-characters in a team setting. Most what people can hope for is a 4-5 issue mini these days. Why is it so? Is the X-men greater than the sum of its parts? Or does publishing solo series oversaturate an already saturated market? Are the x-characters even designed to work as solo acts? How many of them has a personal rogues gallery? Why isn't someone like Storm, who at one point in history outpaced Wonder Woman in terms of popularity, not getting a solo treatment?

I think it depends what you're selling because we're talking about products with labels and logos. Some people might feel attached to someone's story, but it's all about numbers moving.

It's also worth mentioning that these products, or characters, came out at different times of history, so Spider-Man, Super-Man, Batman, and Wonder Woman were made pop culture icons when superheroes moved from pages to other media.

The 90's was a big era for X-Men products and merchandise, and it left its mark as a logo. Then they had non-stop movies coming out for 20 years, after selling cartoons and toys in the 90's. But the X-Men were always a potpourri of characters that sold under the X-Men brand, and it worked as a marketing strategy because they could move and add characters around without anyone caring who wouldn't be there.

They came out as a group in the 60's and sold as a group always, except for Wolverine, who is the face of the X-Men because of his marketability to young male buyers that would buy Batman or Spider-Man otherwise.

They aren't popular individually because that's not how they want them marketed. That's why they should always be wearing X's, like what they did to Ms. Marvel. They already have Wolverine, and Deadpool has been a great surprise these past 10 years, they don't need any other individual character, so they aren't going to try to make it happen.

They've had 40 years to make Storm be a solo thing, and Hickman didn't even bother, I don't think they care to make her solo level despite her having a chance when she was more Black Panther adjacent.

[Force de Phenix]

Also, they preferred dragging Ms. Marvel, an established solo character, into the X-Men rather than using any of their "popular" mutants to sell as a solo character that was tied to the X-Men brand. We could've perfectly had Storm being pushed as a solo character like Captain Marvel, who also appears as an Avenger, but they have Ms. Marvel lying around for that.

[ChronoRogue]

I think TAS team still has a choke-hold on popular culture and is one of the main reasons why it's getting revived by Disney. I know this is more looking at them as a team, rather than individual characters; but I think being on the team at this time immortalized them in popular culture.

For all the money the FoX movies have made, even that interpretation of the characters still can't overtake TAS in recognition or popularity with casual audiences.

The first thing I see when I google X-Men merchandise on google.



Though to be fair, you could argue the hype of the show is what causing this reemergence and that is true to an extent, but I think at their core this is still the most well-known and most popular X-Men.

The only other character I might add would be Deadpool. X-23 still feels a bit niche to casual audiences despite her exposure in Logan. We'll see how the new show might impact awareness of Nightcrawler, Forge, Sunspot and the other regular cast members.

[Doom'nGloom]

Also, they preferred dragging Ms. Marvel, an established solo character, into the X-Men rather than using any of their "popular" mutants to sell as a solo character that was tied to the X-Men brand. We could've perfectly had Storm being pushed as a solo character like Captain Marvel, who also appears as an Avenger, but they have Ms. Marvel lying around for that.

It's funny to me that many people say (and I agree) that the X-men has some of the best female characters in marvel while out of the two most prominent ones, Storm and Jean, one is often neglected by writers not named Claremont and the other has died and came back so many times it became sort of a joke among the fandom.

[Force de Phenix]

It's funny to me that many people say (and I agree) that the X-men has some of the best female characters in marvel while out of the two most prominent ones, Storm and Jean, one is often neglected by writers not named Claremont and the other has died and came back so many times it became sort of a joke among the fandom.

Exactly. And at one time they did this because I assume they were insinuating Storm was a part of the Marvel trifecta of characters.

[ChronoRogue]

Hmm, the Ebay results for individual merchandise is interesting. I tried to do Google first but I could not get the limit words correct. Basically used X-Men + their codename or real name depending on what their most known for (e.g. Jean Grey, Emma Frost, Kitty Pryde).

Wolverine: 84,000
Gambit: 45,000
Cyclops: 43,000
Magneto: 43,000
Storm: 40,000
Colossus: 27,000
Jean Grey: 25,000
Deadpool: 25,000
Beast: 24,000
Nightcrawler: 17,000
Rogue: 16,000
Cable: 16,000
Iceman: 13,000
Bishop: 13,000
Angel: 12,000
Sabretooth: 11,000
Emma Frost: 8,900
Kitty Pyrde: 8,800
Psylocke: 7,900
Mystique: 7,800
Juggernaut: 7,400
Havok: 7,000
Jubilee: 6,400
Charles: 4,900 (Xavier gave lower)
Dazzler: 4,500
X-23: 3,400
Polaris: 3,300
Banshee: 3,000
Forge: 2,500
Toad: 1,700
Sunfire: 1,500

* results are rounded up per default Ebay results

Gambit being number two is interesting and as well as how high Colossus is, other results are not too surprising. Expected Psylocke to be a bit higher. Of course wouldn't take it too seriously but could give slight indication on what the general public buy / sell. The outlier here is Deadpool, but considering I added "X-Men" his results are likely skewed.