Are the "mob" villains still useful?

[Vakanai]

Most people think of Brainiac and Zod and other superpowered villains who can give Superman a big all out brawl of a fight. Lex Luthor seems to be the only non-super people recognize, and even he can don power armor and slug it out with the Man of Steel. So...what point does Metropolis' mob bosses and general organized crime still serve in the Superman story? Sure Intergang's useful as one of Darksied's earthly contacts/feelers if you want to build him up, and they're a good supply for "humans get weapons to hurt Superman" hooks, but what does Bosses Moxie or Bruno still serve? Does the organized crime leaders and elements still make sense in a Superman book, or are they nothing but filler between Zod smackdowns and whatever chaos Lobo's causing on any given day?

[Frontier]

Intergang and Manheim still appear every now and then because it helps fill out Metropolis and adds a bit more of a human element, when writers actually address it.

It also allows for different kind of storytelling and stakes.

[Vakanai]

Intergang and Manheim still appear every now and then because it helps fill out Metropolis and adds a bit more of a human element, when writers actually address it.

This very much sounds like the purpose is "filler between Zod and Lex and Brainiac et al" stories...

[Will Evans]

There’s also the 100 and the Invisible Mafia in Metropolis.

[Vakanai]

There’s also the 100 and the Invisible Mafia in Metropolis.

Add them to the question - there's still a purpose to them beyond filler between actual big villain stories like Brainiac and Zod?

[Alan2099]

I hate when people view stories as "filler" simply because there's no major events that will change everything!!!! going on.

I LIKE the occasional low stakes stories. I think they can be quite interesting and give you some nice fun looks into how the heore's world works on a regular basis.

[godisawesome]

I still think the best single episode of STAS was The Late Mr. Kent, which required smaller, crime story stakes and villainy. The mob villains could really be the focus of more stuff like that - mystery and noir stories that Clark and Lois have to solve before Superman can do his thing.

[Kuwagaton]

Well, Bruno himself is strong enough to make having numbers an issue. But even if you make Superman "S-Class" there really isn't an excuse to write out street level characters. In fact I would say the easiest way to lose to Superman is to go head to head, and the second thing is not having a plan B.

I hate when people view stories as "filler" simply because there's no major events that will change everything!!!! going on.

I LIKE the occasional low stakes stories. I think they can be quite interesting and give you some nice fun looks into how the heore's world works on a regular basis.

I feel that. I don't really enjoy how so many writers come in like, "this is the only Superman story I have in me." Like oh boy, here comes Lex and a given Bad Superman.

[Vakanai]

I hate when people view stories as "filler" simply because there's no major events that will change everything!!!! going on.

I LIKE the occasional low stakes stories. I think they can be quite interesting and give you some nice fun looks into how the heore's world works on a regular basis.

1. I can't say if that's most people's idea of "filler" or not, but it's not what I mean when I use the word filler. Whether it's a major event that will "change everything" or not is unimportant - to me filler simply means it doesn't contribute to the current main narrative or story arc and is not deemed important by the writer who is just using it to fill space between stories they actually want to tell. I prefer low stakes stories over high stakes stories actually, they're always so much more personal and intimate and thus satisfying to me over the bombastic "the epic fights is everything" save the world stories. I think Smashes the Klan is a low stakes story, and it's my favorite Superman story. But it's not filler, the writer felt passionate about it and it showed as one of the best stories to date despite the low stakes. When Bruno and Intergang or the 100 or Invisible Mafia show up, does it usually seem like the writer is passionate about this story or just trying to pass time? If it isn't the story they really want to be telling right now, it's filler.

2. I LOVE low stakes stories when done well. Again, when it isn't about saving the city or world it usually means a more personal down to earth story that gets to the hearts of the characters better. Big event stories are all spectacle and too often shock value, which is meh most times.

[Frontier]

This very much sounds like the purpose is "filler between Zod and Lex and Brainiac et al" stories...

I mean, is it filler if it actually serves a purpose, though?

[marhawkman]

I hate when people view stories as "filler" simply because there's no major events that will change everything!!!! going on.

I LIKE the occasional low stakes stories. I think they can be quite interesting and give you some nice fun looks into how the heore's world works on a regular basis.

Events aren't special if they're the norm. event overload damages the brand IMO. You need slice of life to add perspective to the story.

[Vordan]

Add them to the question - there's still a purpose to them beyond filler between actual big villain stories like Brainiac and Zod?

Sure, those two are big cosmic villains. Intergang, the 100, the Invisible Mafia - what they should be used for is fleshing out Metropolis and the average Metropolitan. In the world of the DCU, what drives people to crimes? How do they commit them with Superman around? What’s it like to be poor in the City of Tomorrow? How does the average stiff get the means to be a threat to Superman? These are all questions worth asking and could easily provide stories. I myself would love to see a “Gang War” storyline in Metropolis, but it requires building up the gangs to be legit threats and doing worldbuilding to establish what the underworld in Metropolis actually looks like.

[DABellWrites]

I hate when people view stories as "filler" simply because there's no major events that will change everything!!!! going on.

I LIKE the occasional low stakes stories. I think they can be quite interesting and give you some nice fun looks into how the heore's world works on a regular basis.

How can you work a low stakes story with a character like Superman? You really have to downplay Clark using his abilities to such an extent, it wouldn't make sense. I'd love for Superman to knock around some mobsters, but he's far too powerful, smart, has his hearing and vision. Unless we're going back to S&S type of stories. Totally can work.

[Adekis]

"Filler" originally had a really specific meaning - arcs that allow anime based on manga to tread water, while the comic progresses, so that the show doesn't risk overtaking the comic in the main plot. In my opinion, the term "Filler" used beyond that has become pretty painfully vague, like "episodes where no Big Moments happen" for example. I remember Steven Universe got accused of having a lot of filler, and like... no, it's got no filler at all. What it has, is a strong focus on slice-of-life episodes with focus on character progression, and not as much focus on the Big Damn Story Arc.

In rejecting that broader sense of what constitutes "Filler", I kind of reject the idea that "Filler" is even possible for Superman.

So, getting back to the question, "can normal mobsters still have a role in Superman narratives? can they be compelling villains?" I would have to answer with a pretty enthusiastic "Yes, they can"... BUT for that to work, requires a willingness for writers to recognize that smaller-scale Superman stories can be every bit as compelling. Not every adventure can, or should, feel like a blockbuster!

[Kuwagaton]

Yeah, thanks for reminding me. It's weird to hear other stuff called filler

Sure, those two are big cosmic villains. Intergang, the 100, the Invisible Mafia - what they should be used for is fleshing out Metropolis and the average Metropolitan. In the world of the DCU, what drives people to crimes? How do they commit them with Superman around? What’s it like to be poor in the City of Tomorrow? How does the average stiff get the means to be a threat to Superman? These are all questions worth asking and could easily provide stories. I myself would love to see a “Gang War” storyline in Metropolis, but it requires building up the gangs to be legit threats and doing worldbuilding to establish what the underworld in Metropolis actually looks like.

Agreed. Personally I love the idea of exploring the fact that Superman "works" with a contingency of us doing our part. Even if you say he can, he's just not going to do everything for us and that not only sets us up for these hazards in the first place but keeps them from being resolved.

Tbh, I don't really care that much about stories where Superman is in danger, because he willingly puts himself in danger. The real problem is that he's trying to protect everyone else: what happens with a threat that bypasses him?

Or his power? Because we've gotten away from humor and at $5 an issue, I somewhat understand. But there are plenty of stories where the question of "winning" just isn't relevant, and many of them can get away from the idea of a threat altogether. There was a time when Prankster and Toyman where his two main villains y'know?