The fall of Krakoa - who's really to blame?

[Rift]

The mutants knew about Orchis and were too busy tripping over themselves to deal with them efficiently.

"But they have a killer robot."

So what?

Hellion could have beat Karima's ass again. The writers are cowards for not unleashing Hell.

[gambit2051]

The mutants knew about Orchis and were too busy tripping over themselves to deal with them efficiently.

I feel like I see your point, and on a basic level, I 100% agree.

But once Duggan took over Writing Duties...this Franchise realllllllllllly began to Ignore the Political Games being played. Krakoa should have been sharing Data on the TERRORIST Operations and Crimes commited by Orchis that they could prove...done what a Public Facing Government is supposed to do and make their case to the Public with Evidence.

Honestly, with the right Writer, the X-Men vs Orchis in Court could be just as Exciting as any 8 page Kitty Murder Spree...and it could have been what PROVOKED this Response. Consider, Orchis is about to be Declared a Terrorist Organization by America, their on the Ground Leadership is about to be Handed Over for Extradition to Krakoa for Trial, Their Funding is about to be Frozen....and the Mutants were Celebrating as the Hellfire Gala falls the Evening before the Verdict will be delivered (as it turns out...bc THAT is the type of Convenience that can be brushed aside or even claimed as being done by the Mutants or their Allies). THAT would have pushed Orchis to do what they did...and Throw Everything they had in a Live or Die Assault.....

The Reason why the Hellfire Gala Massacre felt so forced is because...Why Would Orchis Commit Allllllll those Forces to such an Attack??? It was a "Do or Die" Attack....but it was not TREATED that way by Duggan. It was not Set-Up that way...but if you spend a side story with Krakoa Politics working....then you have Captain Krakoa Bomb the same gd Meeting he did in the X-Men Free Comic Day, where the Senate could have been voting on a resolution to send to the Full Senate declaring Orchis a Terrorist Organization...., THEN it makes more sense why Orchis commited what appeared to be Their ENTIRE Army and All Their Resources to the Attack...

[Sunny]

Jordan D. White.

The absolute correct answer.

[JB]

The mutants knew about Orchis and were too busy tripping over themselves to deal with them efficiently.

"But they have a killer robot."

So what?

I think we'll eventually see Orchis mostly destroyed by the X-Men and OS, Nimrod, and maybe Moira will still be on the loose. Then it's game time!

[Devaishwarya]

At this point I need to see Orchis as an organisation completely eradicated.
T-M11 reduced to slag. Though I wouldn't mind if her original sentience was preserved and eventually brought back as a new born child.
OS and Nimsy are virtually unkillable so...just incapacitate them severely and send them off to a time stream from which they will take eons to escape.

The only Sinister I see coming out of this relatively unscathed and on the loose is MR. Diamond, Spade and Club need utter and complete extinction.

For me, this is what would make a satisfying ending to the Era...but I fully know and expect I might only see 1/10 of that...if so much.

[Triniking1234]

I feel like I see your point, and on a basic level, I 100% agree.

But once Duggan took over Writing Duties...this Franchise realllllllllllly began to Ignore the Political Games being played. Krakoa should have been sharing Data on the TERRORIST Operations and Crimes commited by Orchis that they could prove...done what a Public Facing Government is supposed to do and make their case to the Public with Evidence.

Honestly, with the right Writer, the X-Men vs Orchis in Court could be just as Exciting as any 8 page Kitty Murder Spree...and it could have been what PROVOKED this Response. Consider, Orchis is about to be Declared a Terrorist Organization by America, their on the Ground Leadership is about to be Handed Over for Extradition to Krakoa for Trial, Their Funding is about to be Frozen....and the Mutants were Celebrating as the Hellfire Gala falls the Evening before the Verdict will be delivered (as it turns out...bc THAT is the type of Convenience that can be brushed aside or even claimed as being done by the Mutants or their Allies). THAT would have pushed Orchis to do what they did...and Throw Everything they had in a Live or Die Assault.....

The Reason why the Hellfire Gala Massacre felt so forced is because...Why Would Orchis Commit Allllllll those Forces to such an Attack??? It was a "Do or Die" Attack....but it was not TREATED that way by Duggan. It was not Set-Up that way...but if you spend a side story with Krakoa Politics working....then you have Captain Krakoa Bomb the same gd Meeting he did in the X-Men Free Comic Day, where the Senate could have been voting on a resolution to send to the Full Senate declaring Orchis a Terrorist Organization...., THEN it makes more sense why Orchis commited what appeared to be Their ENTIRE Army and All Their Resources to the Attack...

Also Orchis was scratching their collective racist asses until Mr. Sinister II - Attack of the Clones, Moira and some random Chinese dude who hates both Iron Man and mutants decided to show up and help them.

gg.

[Nicoclaws]

At this point I need to see Orchis as an organisation completely eradicated.
T-M11 reduced to slag. Though I wouldn't mind if her original sentience was preserved and eventually brought back as a new born child.
OS and Nimsy are virtually unkillable so...just incapacitate them severely and send them off to a time stream from which they will take eons to escape.

The only Sinister I see coming out of this relatively unscathed and on the loose is MR. Diamond, Spade and Club need utter and complete extinction.

For me, this is what would make a satisfying ending to the Era...but I fully know and expect I might only see 1/10 of that...if so much.

Orbis can actually be a fun final antagonist. Righteous seems like the obvious final big bad of the Sinisters but I do think her hybris will lead to her destruction.
Mister Sinister will probably survive all of this and come back in the next era, probably in sinergy with the movies.

[Devaishwarya]

Orbis can actually be a fun final antagonist. Righteous seems like the obvious final big bad of the Sinisters but I do think her hybris will lead to her destruction.
Mister Sinister will probably survive all of this and come back in the next era, probably in sinergy with the movies.

Well...Gillenister is still in the X-Office so...yeah...Diamond Sinister will absolutely still be around, along with MR.
Orbis might just leave and go do his own thing out in space. I actually see Stasis being the only one biting the dust permanently.

[Nicoclaws]

Well...Gillenister is still in the X-Office so...yeah...Diamond Sinister will absolutely still be around, along with MR.
Orbis might just leave and go do his own thing out in space. I actually see Stasis being the only one biting the dust permanently.

I hope so. I find him the less original of the four.
(Gillen or not, Sinister is one of the biggest X-baddie. Claremont, Lobdell, Carey... every major X-writer wrote him. And he's the biggest x-threat that never really appeared in the movies yet, I think ? Admittedly, they made like 5 Dark Phoenix saga)

[jwatson]

If i'm honest? Marvel, writers for being so willing to go along with the status quo while acting like they don't seen what "status quo" means to a lot and shops who basically seem more interested in a place to bring their friends and read what they specifically like rather actually try to grow the industry and be profitable. That is my honest initial answer.

[Alex_Of_X]

The mutants knew about Orchis and were too busy tripping over themselves to deal with them efficiently.

"But they have a killer robot."

So what?

Hey, you can absolutely say that Krakoa was built on a shaky ground, and if it weren't Orchis, someone else would knock it down

But then again, by then Krakoa might've grown too mighty to topple. At this point that's semantics. Would've should've could've

[IN-a-Synch]

Its like Exodus said once they let the Snakes in Eden well the downfall was going to come.
It was inevitable.

[JB]

Well...Gillenister is still in the X-Office so...yeah...Diamond Sinister will absolutely still be around, along with MR.
Orbis might just leave and go do his own thing out in space. I actually see Stasis being the only one biting the dust permanently.

Yeah I think Stasis is getting the spotlight now because he's gonna be the first to lose his head, literally.

[jwatson]

Though to stick strictly to the story i honestly can't blame anyone because there was no opposition, even in the story. It was never brought to the mutants attention that someone could be poisoning their drugs, it was never brought up that their quality controls ended so we can only assume that what orichis did was good enough that no noticed it, not even the many madroxs' that were so committed to their work they barely spent any time with his kid and there was a whole story about. there was no communication about the things that happened in mini's etc about lives of wolverine or all the orichis prisons we saw in minis and marvel unlimited with the wolverine story where he saved kurt. Those things just never happened apparently and never came up in a single council meeting a single time. X-force in over 40 issues never found ANY signs pointing to how this could happen. So in story Orichis i guess is just suppose to be that good.

Nobody picked anything up with the Mars satellites. No one was at the gala with a spider sense. Mutants do not communicate with each other about orichis at all because they wasted too much time making up pretender stories. Can anyone tell me what anyone, anyone on the council has actually done for krakoa in the last two years. Like what exactly has Xavier done other than not be present because the story didn't have him there or actually just be a dick to David who usually deserves it. So how can he be to blame for what was never presented to anybody.

[jwatson]

Also which choice would it be. With sinister literally resetting things over and over and over to get the exact outcomes he wanted how do we even know what choice anyone in these books are on. For all we know xavier and the council stopped orichis 10 times over with good ideas but sinister weened them all out into nothing until he had every result he wanted. So i guess literally Sinister is to blame. Sins of sinsiter wasn't the only reset. You know this thread made me feel a little better, not that i felt bad but better about how this can be turned into something of better quality. Because now i can imagine a space where sinister even hid that the drugs were being messed with and he had actually reset that time and he kept throwing mutants off orichis. or maybe mikhal has been writing sinister this whole time. okay.