Heroes 4 Hire 4 Real

[Riv86672]

Indeed. Herc did return ever-so-briefly months before the title folded, though...

^^^UGH. Jen otoh was written terribly in this book.
And though they tried to walk it back (with the Luke/Jen date issue), the fact that she was written like that at all still gets on my nerves all these years later.

[Nomads1]

I really liked that White Tiger (and I'm a fan of the other ones, too, but have always been a fan of the Knights of Wundagore), plus Black Knight's a fun addition to that group. Was Hercules in his de-powered weapon-using state at the time, or his more traditional Thor-class strength & toughness?

Herc is kind of tricky in that phase. Over in Avengers, before Onslaught, Zeus had deprived Hercules of his godly powers, effectively reverting him to how he was in ancient Greece. After an adaptation period, in which he seemed seriously reduced in terms of power, Hercules seemed to be getting more and more back to his 100 ton range of strength, and still tough as nails and hard to damage. Zeus spell seemed mostly to affect his recuperative powers, as well as his stamina. A huge exemple of this was that his body no longer processed alchool as efficiently as it once did, and, depressed that he was not around to stand side by side with his Avengers comrades when they "died", he was really hitting the booze. He WAS mortal, though very hard to kill. To my knowledge, it was never properly explained how and when this condition was reversed, if it ever was. Suddenly, it was no longer an issue.

This roster looks a little redundant with Herc, Hulk, and Cage. However, I never read the book, so maybe it worked?

The cover is a bit decieving. Hulk never joins the team. The Black Knight never sports that outfit. And Cage only really joins after Herc leaves.

Peace

[Sutekh]

Herc is kind of tricky in that phase. Over in Avengers, before Onslaught, Zeus had deprived Hercules of his godly powers, effectively reverting him to how he was in ancient Greece. After an adaptation period, in which he seemed seriously reduced in terms of power, Hercules seemed to be getting more and more back to his 100 ton range of strength, and still tough as nails and hard to damage. Zeus spell seemed mostly to affect his recuperative powers, as well as his stamina. A huge exemple of this was that his body no longer processed alchool as efficiently as it once did, and, depressed that he was not around to stand side by side with his Avengers comrades when they "died", he was really hitting the booze. He WAS mortal, though very hard to kill. To my knowledge, it was never properly explained how and when this condition was reversed, if it ever was. Suddenly, it was no longer an issue.

Yanno, I thought it was weird. He was talked about as if he'd lost his godly powers, and was 'mostly human,' but then he just sort of randomly became class 100 nigh-invulnerable again, and I thought I missed something!

A run where he temporarily lost his godly might (had it stolen by some god-power stealing sorcerer/ess, like Selene, who might be an arch-nemesis for millenia after her history in Rome of usurping the identity of one of his fellow gods, for instance), and had to rely on a Captain America like 'mortal' bod, 20+ centuries of combat experience (woof!) and some magical invulnerable armor and weapons borrowed from Hephaestus/Vulcan, could be neat. He'd certainly fit much better on a more 'street level' Heroes for Hire, in that scenario.

[jackolover]

Nick Fury did it once with superheroes in Bendis ‘s Secret War, but that destroyed SHIELD. Hiring SH’s is what led to Civil War 1 and it eventually disintegrated after Siege. Real fair-dinkum SH’s do not operate under the direction of some superior. They have independent choices for no money and that’s what gives them personal perspective. That is what makes SH’s so effective in crisis because they learn before hand what is right and wrong, not what the Juggernaut does for instance. If they got used to someone telling them what to do they would never learn.

The first X-Men kids did it for Professor X but they had to drink his cool aid and invest in his culture. Hope.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Nick Fury did it once with superheroes in Bendis ‘s Secret War, but that destroyed SHIELD. Hiring SH’s is what led to Civil War 1 and it eventually disintegrated after Siege. Real fair-dinkum SH’s do not operate under the direction of some superior. They have independent choices for no money and that’s what gives them personal perspective. That is what makes SH’s so effective in crisis because they learn before hand what is right and wrong, not what the Juggernaut does for instance. If they got used to someone telling them what to do they would never learn.

The first X-Men kids did it for Professor X but they had to drink his cool aid and invest in his culture. Hope.

...WTF are you talking about?

And the less said about Secret War, the better

[jackolover]

...WTF are you talking about?

And the less said about Secret War, the better

Just imparting my view.

Bendis’ Secret War? I don’t know. It was a radical use of Fury and superheroes, and it did lay the groundwork for the New Avengers. What upsets you about Secret War?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Just imparting my view.

Bendis’ Secret War? I don’t know. It was a radical use of Fury and superheroes, and it did lay the groundwork for the New Avengers. What upsets you about Secret War?

That it sucked?

The internal logic was crap, symptomatic of Bendis' usual writing.

He wants to write big ideas without putting the thought and effort forward to make it work.

[Nomads1]

That it sucked?

The internal logic was crap, symptomatic of Bendis' usual writing.

He wants to write big ideas without putting the thought and effort forward to make it work.

However, as usually happens with the books given to Bendis, it was a nice looking book. The story was, IMHO, kind of crappy and totally forgetable.

Peace

[Cap808]

However, as usually happens with the books given to Bendis, it was a nice looking book. The story was, IMHO, kind of crappy and totally forgetable.

Peace

The original SW was a big time EVENT. I didn't read Bendis' version, so I'm not sure how this one was received, but it doesn't sound like it was an EVENT.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The original SW was a big time EVENT. I didn't read Bendis' version, so I'm not sure how this one was received, but it doesn't sound like it was an EVENT.

It was meant to kickstart stuff, but like all Bendis writing, he cared more about the aftermath than the execution. He was more eager to move onto the stories this one would let him tell, than actually telling it.

Like Secret Invasion, really.

[Cap808]

It was meant to kickstart stuff, but like all Bendis writing, he cared more about the aftermath than the execution. He was more eager to move onto the stories this one would let him tell, than actually telling it.

Like Secret Invasion, really.

Sounds like I didn't miss much on either of those storylines.

[Nomads1]

Sounds like I didn't miss much on either of those storylines.

Depends on who you ask. Bendis is, without a doubt, a controversial writer. Some hate his work with a passion, others love it with equal intensity. It's kind of hard to find someone in the middle. I'm more on the first group. I find him good at set-ups, but terrible when it comes to the pay-off. He also has an obvious desdain for establishhed continuity, even his own, having no problem in ignoring or even contradicting it. Most of his characters speak in one voice, a Gilmore Girl-like snarky repeating drivel that many call Bendisspeak (and that those who like his work insist that "that's how real people speak"). For the above mentioned storylines, the first is a supposed "spy-thriller" that outed Nick Fury from S.H.I.E.L.D. (not an original move, and that has been, IMHO, done better in the past), and it irked me when he introduced a pet character, Quake, intending her to be a fearsome, powerful character that gave halt to all the powerful and established Marvel Characters, and I could think of at least half a dozen ways most of them could have dropped her dead (figuratively, of course) before she even had the chance to open her stupid snarky mouth (that also made me despise the character with a passion). The second was a meandering rehash of an Alan Davis X-Men story on a larger scale, and, as The Cool Thatguy has mentioned, was more about setting up the aftermath than the story itself (only the Disney+ series managed to be worse). And, the real Secret Invasion actually happened in the pages of Avengers: The Initiative. I will say this for Bendis, his stories are so decompressed that they are a quick and easy read, enhanced by some of the top artists in the industry, that editorial always manages to pair him with.

Peace

[Sutekh]

Best parts of the Secret Invasion stuff, IMO, was the new characters. I dug Michael Van Patrick, Komodo, Hardball, Telemetry, Gorilla Girl, Gauntlet, Baron von Blitzschlag, Reptil and Armory, and the brief use of the Secret Warriors made me want to go look up the *other* teams, of which Mikel Fury's Team Gray was absolutely amazing (and, of course, died immediately after being introduced, so he could focus on a less interesting team...). Sigh. Same thing happened with the Initiative, really. Good focus on people like Cloud 9, Crusader and Trauma, who kinda bored me.

[jackolover]

That it sucked?

The internal logic was crap, symptomatic of Bendis' usual writing.

He wants to write big ideas without putting the thought and effort forward to make it work.

My initial comment on Bendis’ Secret War was that it led to Civil War 1. Reflecting back on it, I suppose Bendis had to inject all the angst of the 9/11 attacks on society by making Superheroes actions more criminal as per society’s changes in 2004. There was a huge mental shift in the mild, comfortable state people in America took at that time. Everybody was an enemy from then on, so why not the established security agency and superheroes? My god. They established Homeland Security at that time. That tore across every established authority in the USA. Hell, Dan Slott showed the MU even embraced a real Nazi in Avengers Initiative Doctor Blitzshlag, so that tells you the lengths MU America went to in those days. And who knows if that wasn’t a commentary on Homeland Securities excesses?

From that viewpoint, I think Bendis’ Secret War attempted to portray the state of America’s mindset as critical of all established authorities for allowing 9/11 to happen, and superheroes were caught up in the wash.

Why do you think they killed Kennedy? They didn’t want him to hand over all Americas protection to the Russians with a Nuclear disarmament agreement. Fear.

[Alpha to Omega]

Yanno, I thought it was weird. He was talked about as if he'd lost his godly powers, and was 'mostly human,' but then he just sort of randomly became class 100 nigh-invulnerable again, and I thought I missed something!

A run where he temporarily lost his godly might (had it stolen by some god-power stealing sorcerer/ess, like Selene, who might be an arch-nemesis for millenia after her history in Rome of usurping the identity of one of his fellow gods, for instance), and had to rely on a Captain America like 'mortal' bod, 20+ centuries of combat experience (woof!) and some magical invulnerable armor and weapons borrowed from Hephaestus/Vulcan, could be neat. He'd certainly fit much better on a more 'street level' Heroes for Hire, in that scenario.

That was basically the premise of Pak and Van Lente’s short-lived Herc run post-Chaos War, Hercules was stripped of his godly powers and had to rely on weapons he had taken from Olympus like the Shield of Perseus, the Sword of Peleus and the Helm of Hades.