Justice for Sharon Friedlander - Karma of Joanna Cargill ?

[Rift]

This is why people should stan a fave like Hellion. Aside from some cases of bullying, sexual harassment and classism - all of which were done as a minor - he's been an unproblematic angel. He would never kill a human, even though they deserve it. The only human he tried to kill was Karima, and he was in the right to do so.

[Thirteen]

Thats how I feel about those involved in the Mutant Massacre (the real one) like Sinister and Scalphunter (who many seem to love now) who killed many morlocks, some children. Not to mention severly injuring those that tried to help like Shadowcat, Nightcrawler and Colossus. I remember people wanting Vertigo to be an X-Man years ago while being rabid at the mouth about Wanda. I agree in justice no matter how cool the character is or how popular. So its not just bias, no one seems to care about that mutant slaughter either where the Marauders are concerned.

I'm surprised the Marauders haven't been written a guilt free "that was a mind controlled Sinister clone version of me" story beat yet. We know he "revived" them via cloning so... The original Siniste-rized group!

[whitecrown]

Callisto did have one dubious appearance in Marauders, IIRC, hanging out with Emma (who was sharing the book with Kate, Shaw, Pyro, Iceman and Ororo, IIRC), which I would have thought okay because they'd just made the point of Emma giving them money for a gated community in Arizona for the former Morlocks (which seemed like a tacit acknowledgement that they just weren't okay with Krakoa being so welcoming of Sinister and his Marauders), but then editorial had chosen to name the book 'Marauders,' which seemed like just poor taste. I mean, let's invite Kitty to hang and be chums with a team called the Nazis, that's totally cool, right? She can rip the arms off a Hugo Boss SS uniform and it'll all be swell. :/

(If I'm misrembering and it wasn't a Marauders appearance by Callisto, then nvm, I'm just being daft! I'm old, I blame it on all the goofballs we hep cats smoked / lead paint chips we ate / chlorinated water we drank as a kid.)

Thanks for confirming even if you can't quite remember correctly lol. If it was Marauders that Callisto appeared in, it is bizarre that she'd have no comments about appearing with a team named after the butcherers of her people. But most of the X-Men aren't exactly in-character these days anyway so who's to say Callisto would be any different.

[Thirteen]

Thanks for confirming even if you can't quite remember correctly lol. If it was Marauders that Callisto appeared in, it is bizarre that she'd have no comments about appearing with a team named after the butcherers of her people. But most of the X-Men aren't exactly in-character these days anyway so who's to say Callisto would be any different.

Also the Marauders were the team that monumentally crippled Kitty...and she was leading the team in the new incarnation. So questionable all around.

[whitecrown]

Also the Marauders were the team that monumentally crippled Kitty...and she was leading the team in the new incarnation. So questionable all around.

Exactly. Kitty almost discorporated into nothing because of what the Marauders did to her. Her best friend and ex-lover were both just as brutally maimed with Kurt unable to teleport for years and Piotr unable to turn into flesh and blood. Kitty had bonded with Caliban and many of the Morlocks and even had Thanksgiving with some of them, such as Annalee, with Power Pack. She saw firsthand, even before the actual Mutant Massacre event, how many innocent children were slaughtered.

Just as OOC are Bobby and Ororo. Bobby watched one of his closest friends get his wings amputated and turned into Archangel, his own personal inner demon that he's never been able to conquer. Ororo suffered from the guilt of leading the Morlocks but never doing anything for them and watching these people who depended on her be slaughtered. It was one of the few times she broke her "no killing" code and no one blamed her for it. The Marauders were the epitome of evil and I think they even gloated about how they had no rhyme or reason to kill the Morlocks, they just did it because they could.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Exactly. Kitty almost discorporated into nothing because of what the Marauders did to her. Her best friend and ex-lover were both just as brutally maimed with Kurt unable to teleport for years and Piotr unable to turn into flesh and blood. Kitty had bonded with Caliban and many of the Morlocks and even had Thanksgiving with some of them, such as Annalee, with Power Pack. She saw firsthand, even before the actual Mutant Massacre event, how many innocent children were slaughtered.

Just as OOC are Bobby and Ororo. Bobby watched one of his closest friends get his wings amputated and turned into Archangel, his own personal inner demon that he's never been able to conquer. Ororo suffered from the guilt of leading the Morlocks but never doing anything for them and watching these people who depended on her be slaughtered. It was one of the few times she broke her "no killing" code and no one blamed her for it. The Marauders were the epitome of evil and I think they even gloated about how they had no rhyme or reason to kill the Morlocks, they just did it because they could.

No, that's not true.

They did it because Sinister told them to. And at the time, he was a legit scary bad guy who could kill ithem without effort, not some over the top dandy that gets hurt by an elephant gun.

That's not to say that the Marauders aren't bastards and utterly terrible people, but they had far less choice in the matter than you want to acknowledge

[GoingGreen]

No, that's not true.

They did it because Sinister told them to. And at the time, he was a legit scary bad guy who could kill ithem without effort, not some over the top dandy that gets hurt by an elephant gun.

That's not to say that the Marauders aren't bastards and utterly terrible people, but they had far less choice in the matter than you want to acknowledge

I reread the original Mutant Massacre recently, and the Marauders were absolutely enjoying what their boss tasked them with. The are not redeemable, and I’m still grossed out they redeemed Malice.

[whitecrown]

I reread the original Mutant Massacre recently, and the Marauders were absolutely enjoying what their boss tasked them with. The are not redeemable, and I’m still grossed out they redeemed Malice.

I'm glad you brought up Malice because that's another reason why Bobby being on a team called the Marauders makes no sense. It's not just because of what they did to Warren but also because of Malice possessing Lorna for such a long period. Lorna's one of his closest friends and ex-romantic interest. There's no way he'd be okay with being on a team that hurt two of his best friends.

[Sutekh]

I'm surprised the Marauders haven't been written a guilt free "that was a mind controlled Sinister clone version of me" story beat yet. We know he "revived" them via cloning so... The original Siniste-rized group!

Yeah, we've even seen him whip out a Sinister-clone of Sabertooth, so it's entirely possible that the team that went into the tunnels are a bunch of clones specifically created to be even more psycho-killer than they normally were, and for modern clones to be somewhat less so. (Which certainly seems the case for those that have gone through some sort of development since, like Greycrow, and, from what I've read online, Scrambler.)

I wonder the same about those Dark Riders that worked for Apocalypse. Not only had they been re-cloned by Poccy multiple times, but deriving their powers from Terrigenesis, I wonder if the amount of Terrigen in their systems was undergoing some sort of replicative fading, and they were becoming paler and paler shadows of themselves with each iteration, since, as servants of 'survival of the fittest' there, they were pretty dire, powers-wise.

[Will Evans]

The Five should totally resurrect Sharon.

[Pumpkin King]

The Five should totally resurrect Sharon.

Is it possible for them to do so? If they don't have a Cerebro back-up of her mind, it would just be a blank slate clone. Unless there is some way to call human souls to the Waiting Room, but I don't think that's possible either, since Anya couldn't come back. If it were possible, Sharon would be high on the list of human allies of the X-Men who deserve to get resurrected.

[norj]

Is it possible for them to do so? If they don't have a Cerebro back-up of her mind, it would just be a blank slate clone. Unless there is some way to call human souls to the Waiting Room, but I don't think that's possible either, since Anya couldn't come back. If it were possible, Sharon would be high on the list of human allies of the X-Men who deserve to get resurrected.

Ben Reilly knows how to create clones that have the souls of the original.

[Pumpkin King]

Ben Reilly knows how to create clones that have the souls of the original.

Hmm, now I'm kinda hoping for Ben Reilly to bring Sharon back in Dark X-Men. Maybe Tom Corsi comes to Maddie asking about Sharon. It's unlikely, but I can dream.

[marhawkman]

Aw... I saw "Sharon" and got excited hoping it was Sharon Ginsberg, but no. :/

[marhawkman]

Thats how I feel about those involved in the Mutant Massacre (the real one) like Sinister and Scalphunter (who many seem to love now) who killed many morlocks, some children. Not to mention severly injuring those that tried to help like Shadowcat, Nightcrawler and Colossus. I remember people wanting Vertigo to be an X-Man years ago while being rabid at the mouth about Wanda. I agree in justice no matter how cool the character is or how popular. So its not just bias, no one seems to care about that mutant slaughter either where the Marauders are concerned.

In the specific case of Vertigo... we have reason to believe that there have in fact been two of her running around at times. why? well, one of her was a Marauder, the other was a heroine in the Savage Land. I'm inclined to think the Marauder is the clone.