Children of the Vault #1 - Review/Spoilers

[Ramiel12]

Marvel writers continue to be ignorant about Latin America, LOL. The Chile thing was absurd and Rocinha is not even the poorest favela in Brazil, much less the world. I wish Camp and his editors could have done better research when tackling regions they know nothing about.

Other than that, I did really like the issue. The characters were on point and there is a very real sense of stakes.
The art was also very good, even if I thought the costume designs were very generic. But the rest worked.

I don't know why Marvel still focuses only on Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. There are favelas in Rio de Janeiro for a very sad reason, but most of the neighborhoods in that city are luxurious, with houses costing millions of dollars. It is one of the most expensive cities to live in South America, and is home to the largest number of billionaires in South America.
More and more rich neighborhoods are created every year. In Rio de Janeiro even inside the favelas there are expensive parties with expensive drinks and good DJs.
Sorry for congesting the post.

[lefthanded]

Imagine taking Orchis seriously.

X-men (Duggan) is taking Orchis seriously, Immortal X-men (Gillen) is taking Orchis semi-seriously, Astonishing Iceman (Orlando) is taking Orchis unseriously, and CoTV (Camp) is just flat out ignoring Orchis.

All fall under the Fall of X banner, each are interesting setups, and yet none of them seem to be part of the same story.


It would have been better if this CoTV story had occurred during the Krakoan era, instead of the non-story we got with Forge and the X-men. They would have had to come up with a reason why Bishop and Cable are on their own against CoTV, but I am sure it still would have worked.

[davetvs]

CoTV isn't ignoring Orchis, there is literally an in-story reference to them and why they aren't currently involved in the plot. Since the Children are Post-Human it wouldn't make sense for Orchis to be targeting them anyway.

[Mutant X]

I don't know why Marvel still focuses only on Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. There are favelas in Rio de Janeiro for a very sad reason, but most of the neighborhoods in that city are luxurious, with houses costing millions of dollars. It is one of the most expensive cities to live in South America, and is home to the largest number of billionaires in South America.
More and more rich neighborhoods are created every year. In Rio de Janeiro even inside the favelas there are expensive parties with expensive drinks and good DJs.
Sorry for congesting the post.

Rio has wealthy neighborhoods, but it's the exception, not the rule.
The farthest you go from the shore, the poorest the city becomes.

Tourists visiting some parts of the favela that narcotraffic and militias allow them like a safari is not the reality people there live.

[Krakoa]

X-men (Duggan) is taking Orchis seriously, Immortal X-men (Gillen) is taking Orchis semi-seriously, Astonishing Iceman (Orlando) is taking Orchis unseriously, and CoTV (Camp) is just flat out ignoring Orchis.

All fall under the Fall of X banner, each are interesting setups, and yet none of them seem to be part of the same story.


It would have been better if this CoTV story had occurred during the Krakoan era, instead of the non-story we got with Forge and the X-men. They would have had to come up with a reason why Bishop and Cable are on their own against CoTV, but I am sure it still would have worked.

I don't see how none of them seem to be part of the same story. They're all clearly part of the same story. They're just tackling different aspects of it. You literally have Emma and Xavier communicating and Shaw reacting to what Emma is doing over in X-Men and Iron Man in Immortal. Iceman is taking Orchis seriously, it's just a generally lighter tone because of who the main character is, but it's still a serious book about Orchis and the threat they pose to public opinion and how Iceman opposes that. And (shocker!) a book called "Children of the Vault" has the Children of the Vault as the villains. But it's STILL not ignoring Orchis -- Cable was in an Orchis facility, Bishop was targeting Orchis facilities, we saw Orchis decide not to go after the Children and we also saw that the Children are manipulating people to help make them not go after them.

Do you want these to be so interconnected you can't just read one book alone?

[Technopriest]

I don't know why Marvel still focuses only on Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. There are favelas in Rio de Janeiro for a very sad reason, but most of the neighborhoods in that city are luxurious, with houses costing millions of dollars. It is one of the most expensive cities to live in South America, and is home to the largest number of billionaires in South America.
More and more rich neighborhoods are created every year. In Rio de Janeiro even inside the favelas there are expensive parties with expensive drinks and good DJs.
Sorry for congesting the post.

Because most writers and editors at Marvel have barely a passing knowledge of South America even though they have had a **** ton of artists from that part of the world. They'll show South America, but in the most stereotypical and ignorant way possible. That they fail to understand how climate, geography and and a map works is another level of ignorance though. I mean let's show an Ecuatorian city but we'll have most people in the picture in traditional indigenous garb even though that is not common in a city like Quito, or let's create a completely fictitious situation o go along with the real issues of lithium fields because a writer and editor cannot be bothered to do the most minimal research of the place they are using. This is why I prefer American comics to stick to using made up places in Latin America where they can just put every single stereotype they have and just say "well, it's not a real place", just like they use a place like Lavteria to pretend that Europe still looks like it did in the 1800s.

[Jackraow21]

Agreed, I'd love to see them reach the point where they're willingly open to working with one another from here forward. Now we count down the days for issue #2!

Deniz Camp will be featured in an upcoming X-Men Monday and the call for questions has gone out!

X-Men Monday Call for Questions: Deniz Camp for ‘Children of the Vault’
https://aiptcomics.com/2023/08/10/x-...hildren-vault/

Accepting Questions About: Children of the Vault

Deadline: Saturday, August 12 @ 5 PM EST

Oh sweet! Got to think of some questions for him. Right now the main things on my mind are A) whether he's doing more work for the X-office, hopefully with Cable in it; and B) did Luca Maresca design Cable's new look, which I love, and is he going to be keeping it for awhile? Not sure I'll get an answer to either, however, so trying to think of some other ones.

[Jackraow21]

I do not need the actual Cable vs Bishop story to keep getting brought up but I also like when characters just do not get along for whatever reason. It makes the occasional team-up interesting.

Well, I think Deniz Camp was trying to make this new reader accessible while still honoring continuity. So the hope is that after this first issue everyone understands they have beef stemming from their past history and (at a high level) what caused it. Coming out of this series the hope is that they no longer have to bring it up all the time, as they no longer have such bad blood. Maybe they still aren't best friends, and talk a little trash to each other, but can work together just fine so it doesn't need to be brought up again. Going forward it's more just two head strong alpha male types butting heads when they work together. Maybe they even begrudgingly respect and like one another, kind of like Nathan and John Proudstar... as I think at this stage Thunderbird likes Cable more than he'll admit, despite hating his father.

[lefthanded]

I don't see how none of them seem to be part of the same story. They're all clearly part of the same story. They're just tackling different aspects of it. You literally have Emma and Xavier communicating and Shaw reacting to what Emma is doing over in X-Men and Iron Man in Immortal. Iceman is taking Orchis seriously, it's just a generally lighter tone because of who the main character is, but it's still a serious book about Orchis and the threat they pose to public opinion and how Iceman opposes that. And (shocker!) a book called "Children of the Vault" has the Children of the Vault as the villains. But it's STILL not ignoring Orchis -- Cable was in an Orchis facility, Bishop was targeting Orchis facilities, we saw Orchis decide not to go after the Children and we also saw that the Children are manipulating people to help make them not go after them.

Do you want these to be so interconnected you can't just read one book alone?

No, I don't need them to be a multi part event series, I just want consistency in terms of world building.

The things you are pointing out are true, these stories are using bits and pieces of FoX to tell a semi-connected story. But the problem is the pieces they use kind of contradict each other so they don't fit together in the same world.

Iceman has Orchis be the nigh ominous prescence, able to scramble satellites, nano machines, and be onsite within minutes of Iceman's appearance.
X-men has Orchis troops be impervious to telepathy.
Immortal X-men has Orchis troops be easily susceptible to telepathy.
Immortal X-men has Emma worried about telepathy being tracked, but minutes later Xavier displays reckless usage of telepathy against Orchis troops.
CoTV has a virus that makes people not go after CoTV, but has the opposite effect on Bishop (he purposefully goes after CoTV and stops going after Orchis). This could be an actual point, as the virus is a way for the CoTV to get mutants to reveal themselves, but then the brings up the question in X-men where Kitty is still going after Orchis and not CoTV.

[Krakoa]

No, I don't need them to be a multi part event series, I just want consistency in terms of world building.

The things you are pointing out are true, these stories are using bits and pieces of FoX to tell a semi-connected story. But the problem is the pieces they use kind of contradict each other so they don't fit together in the same world.

Iceman has Orchis be the nigh ominous prescence, able to scramble satellites, nano machines, and be onsite within minutes of Iceman's appearance.
X-men has Orchis troops be impervious to telepathy.
Immortal X-men has Orchis troops be easily susceptible to telepathy.
Immortal X-men has Emma worried about telepathy being tracked, but minutes later Xavier displays reckless usage of telepathy against Orchis troops.
CoTV has a virus that makes people not go after CoTV, but has the opposite effect on Bishop (he purposefully goes after CoTV and stops going after Orchis). This could be an actual point, as the virus is a way for the CoTV to get mutants to reveal themselves, but then the brings up the question in X-men where Kitty is still going after Orchis and not CoTV.

Every single one of these is explained with slight critical thinking.

Orchis is able to do all of that in iceman because it’s a trap for iceman lol. They’re literally trying to draw him out. They state that many times. They’re concentrating forces to do that.

X-Men has shown certain Orchis troops with blockers. That doesn’t mean every grunt they send gets that expensive equipment. They think no one is on Krakoa, so they didn’t give them any.
Emma is worried that someone will listen in on their convo. Xavier uses a completely different kind of telepathy, and also might just not be worried. They’re different people.


The virus doesn’t have the opposite impact on Bishop. He just is smart enough to know when he’s being influenced.

[Jackraow21]

The virus doesn’t have the opposite impact on Bishop. He just is smart enough to know when he’s being influenced.

Exactly. And after rescuing Cable, and him determining that Bishop had been infected with this virus along with everyone else, it makes sense that they pivot towards stopping the CotV before it's too late. Others are fighting Orchis like Bishop was (see Uncanny Avengers #1 preview where Psylocke and Penance are doing the exact same thing) and I have no doubt when this mini wraps both men will turn their attention and their talents for war back in Orchis' direction.

[Mr. White]

Well, I think Deniz Camp was trying to make this new reader accessible while still honoring continuity. So the hope is that after this first issue everyone understands they have beef stemming from their past history and (at a high level) what caused it. Coming out of this series the hope is that they no longer have to bring it up all the time, as they no longer have such bad blood. Maybe they still aren't best friends, and talk a little trash to each other, but can work together just fine so it doesn't need to be brought up again. Going forward it's more just two head strong alpha male types butting heads when they work together. Maybe they even begrudgingly respect and like one another, kind of like Nathan and John Proudstar... as I think at this stage Thunderbird likes Cable more than he'll admit, despite hating his father.

^Well put.

[jwatson]

marvel pr out working hard this week. hands down this is the most interesting book in fall for me right now.

[lefthanded]

Exactly. And after rescuing Cable, and him determining that Bishop had been infected with this virus along with everyone else, it makes sense that they pivot towards stopping the CotV before it's too late. Others are fighting Orchis like Bishop was (see Uncanny Avengers #1 preview where Psylocke and Penance are doing the exact same thing) and I have no doubt when this mini wraps both men will turn their attention and their talents for war back in Orchis' direction.

Lol, that is not true at all.

The comic doesn't indicate different time periods, but it shows Bishop pre-rescuing of Cable deciding to ignore Orchis to take on CoTV. Those scenes of him living like a homeless man, attacking Orchis base doesn't have a time stamp on it, but it is pre-rescue of Cable. He states to get to the list, he needs to deal with the CoTV (while looking at a tv that shows the CoTV), and to do that he needs help (from Cable).

So he already pivoted to attacking CoTV before knowing about the virus.

So the initial reason for Bishop to want to attack CoTV, is to get a macguffin (list) so that he can continue attacking Orchis. Once Cable enters the picture, then Camp tacks on the additional reason to attack CoTV being the virus.

Every single one of these is explained with slight critical thinking.

Orchis is able to do all of that in iceman because it’s a trap for iceman lol. They’re literally trying to draw him out. They state that many times. They’re concentrating forces to do that.

X-Men has shown certain Orchis troops with blockers. That doesn’t mean every grunt they send gets that expensive equipment. They think no one is on Krakoa, so they didn’t give them any.
Emma is worried that someone will listen in on their convo. Xavier uses a completely different kind of telepathy, and also might just not be worried. They’re different people.


The virus doesn’t have the opposite impact on Bishop. He just is smart enough to know when he’s being influenced.

Don't give me that insult of needing to use critical thinking. That is just another way of calling someone dumb.

Those answers you give could be valid, but they require a lot of extra handwaving just to make it work. One person's "critical thinking" is another person's "fan fiction."

Psi-blockers are expensive? Suddenly the price of things comes into play, in a world where they have a station in the sun, they are wasting money on Iceman traps, etc? Ok, but then the writers better continue to show me that Orchis is dealing with inflationary spending.

A character is too smart for a trap? Sure, the special protagonist of the story just happens to be one of the few people that the bad guys' abilities don't work on. The story better show me why, since Bishop is infected, Bishop is immune. If the next few issues have a panel saying "This virus infects but doesn't work on individuals with X-gene or IQ > 150" then I will take back this criticism.

Suddenly there are different types of telepathy like there are flavors of ice cream? Okay, sure, but then there better be a reason why chocolate telepathy is different from rocky road telepathy. And does Orchis-psi-blockers work on strawberry telepathy but not on cookies and cream telepathy?

In order to make so much of FoX works, readers have to create all these extra-text 'answers' which have not existed previously, are entirely based on conjecture, and I would wager will not be developed upon.

Again, these answers may be valid, individually. But the writing brings up so many confusing questions, that when you pile up all the answers together, it doesn't really work.

This might not be a problem for you, but there are too many chunks of ice in this FoX-smoothie I am drinking.

[Jackraow21]

Lol, that is not true at all.

The comic doesn't indicate different time periods, but it shows Bishop pre-rescuing of Cable deciding to ignore Orchis to take on CoTV. Those scenes of him living like a homeless man, attacking Orchis base doesn't have a time stamp on it, but it is pre-rescue of Cable. He states to get to the list, he needs to deal with the CoTV (while looking at a tv that shows the CoTV), and to do that he needs help (from Cable).

So he already pivoted to attacking CoTV before knowing about the virus.

So the initial reason for Bishop to want to attack CoTV, is to get a macguffin (list) so that he can continue attacking Orchis. Once Cable enters the picture, then Camp tacks on the additional reason to attack CoTV being the virus.

Lol, you are partly correct: Bishop pivoted to stopping the CotV and rescued Cable to aid in that effort prior to knowing about the mind virus. My bad on that. I misremembered. But he already has the list and doesn't need to get it from the CotV. I think perhaps you read that wrong. He talks about the list and the 1,743 Orchis facilities that he aims to "burn to the ground," and then it says in the narration box "but to get to the list, the situation with the Children would have to be dealt with... and Bishop had to admit he couldn't deal with it alone."

That's not to say that he now suddenly has to get the list - a list he clearly already has - from the CotV; rather I think it's just saying he feels the CotV need to be dealt with first before he can get back to his Orchis list. Regardless, you are correct that he pivoted to taking on the CotV prior to knowing about the virus, so that wasn't why he pivoted. Seeing as he's a Captain Commander and a strategic thinker, I'm guessing he just felt that since no one else is stopping the CotV (and others are actively engaged in fighting Orchis) that he needed to do this now before they grow even more powerful. Hence him springing Nathan to help him in this endeavor.

It still works, and I don't think it's too much of a logical stretch here. At least IMO. But if you want to find fault with it, I'm sure you can. *shrugs*