Tom Brevoort to become X-Men's Senior Editor

[Uncanny X-Man]

As long as we don’t go back to 90s art where all the women has breasts that were bigger than their heads

The industry never really moved past that.

[Grunty]

And when the film division figures it out they might not even communicate that to the comics people. Y’all remember how they changed Carol’s origin to be half Kree in anticipation of her movie, only for that to be nowhere near he movie origin story.

This can make it sound like things at Marvel Comics are happening akin to the South Park episode "Hellen Keller! The Musicial".

Where someone constantly bursts into the office and reports the supposed plans and going ons at the movie division, which the comic division then feels compelled to follow in a hurry and rushed way, in an attempt to remain "up to date" or "in" with what's going to be the trend.

There was also the rumor that Bendis killed off Rhodey because he thought he was going to die in the Civil War movie, but I'm not sure how true that is.

It might be completely false, but given the repeating pattern of the comic division trying to trend chase the movies, it sadly sounds reasonably believable.

[salarta]

Reading Gillen's blog, and really everything we have heard the last month or so, marks the end of the Krakoa as such a jumping-off point. It's almost like they are announcing the end of innovation and creativity.

I don't speak for every reader or even many readers, but I would not bet on hyper-classic being the sales solution lol. But maybe it is. I just wouldn't bet on it.

I'm underlining something said here that I disagree with. I've disagreed with it for this whole "era." I just haven't been all too vocal about it lately.

What I've seen hasn't been all that innovative. So they made a mutant version of a Lazarus pit. It's not the first time the concept of resurrecting the dead has occurred in superhero comics. And this version of it isn't even really resurrecting the dead, it's more like taking the conceit of Madelyne Pryor and using it for all mutants. So they have a mutant nation. It's like the one millionth mutant nation in the past 20 years. The Omega mutant classifications are as biased as ever, the portals aren't exactly a new concept, a "mutant language" is something tons of scifi and fantasy have been doing for at least half a century (heck, in video games FF10 did it over 20 years ago), etc etc etc. The only two things that seemed arguably innovative to me were the land used for this nation also being a mutant, and mutants terraforming a planet. The latter is something that IMO hasn't really meant much outside of hardcore fandom, and ironically ticked off most fans in the pre-Fox buyout period for looking like a way to get rid of mutants in the Marvel universe.

Meanwhile, when you dig into the actual substance of the comics, nearly all of it just came off to me as regurgitated nostalgia and stifled potential. The X-Men vote was probably the best idea of this entire "era" by virtue of the X-Men office actually giving a damn about learning what interests readers to any extent, opening the door to possibly making real innovations and exploring stuff with tons of untapped potential. But even that never really went much of anywhere. In Lorna's case, so far all it's done is have her appear in half of a year's issues and start drinking coffee. All else has been typical mix of reinforcing misguided nostalgia and ignoring key issues for the character. It hasn't led to them doing a deeper dive into understanding Lorna or interest in her and pursuing her potential in any real way. It didn't even lead to them bothering to care about her reaction to her own father's death, pouring all opportunities with it only into Storm's reaction.

True innovation requires a deep analysis of the fiction paired with a willingness to tap into unused potential, while not being beholden to nostalgia above all else. The X-Men office hasn't demonstrated any of that in my estimation. It usually only happens if some outside pressure forces the office to change, like Captain Britain happening due to external scandal over Psylocke having been a white woman in an Asian body alongside all the Cebulski stuff.

I know fans of the X-Men comics here will greatly disagree with what I've said, which is to be expected when you're posting on a sub-board dedicated to X-Men on a forum devoted to comic books. It's still how it all looks to me.

[useridgoeshere]

I agree that the execution has fallen short of the promise. To me, the Krakoa era's legacy is untapped potential, because they defaulted to a ton of events and X-tropes instead of genuinely thinking about what a Mutant nation would be like. Even ideas like Mutant magic were meaningless and half-baked.

I disagree on the resurrection protocols. I think that was innovative because it officially took death off the table as a stake for an entire line of characters in and out of story. I loved the idea of forcing writers and fans to think differently. In so many comics, death is the only stake. It's a crutch and cheap way to earn heat. Events and new big bads start by killing off someone to show how serious it is. To me, other means of resurrection didn't have the same impact, because they're smaller and less overt. Unfortunately, I think like most things introduced in HOX/POX, it made sense for Hickman, but not the writers they brought in.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I'm underlining something said here that I disagree with. I've disagreed with it for this whole "era." I just haven't been all too vocal about it lately.

What I've seen hasn't been all that innovative. So they made a mutant version of a Lazarus pit. It's not the first time the concept of resurrecting the dead has occurred in superhero comics. And this version of it isn't even really resurrecting the dead, it's more like taking the conceit of Madelyne Pryor and using it for all mutants. So they have a mutant nation. It's like the one millionth mutant nation in the past 20 years. The Omega mutant classifications are as biased as ever, the portals aren't exactly a new concept, a "mutant language" is something tons of scifi and fantasy have been doing for at least half a century (heck, in video games FF10 did it over 20 years ago), etc etc etc. The only two things that seemed arguably innovative to me were the land used for this nation also being a mutant, and mutants terraforming a planet. The latter is something that IMO hasn't really meant much outside of hardcore fandom, and ironically ticked off most fans in the pre-Fox buyout period for looking like a way to get rid of mutants in the Marvel universe.

Meanwhile, when you dig into the actual substance of the comics, nearly all of it just came off to me as regurgitated nostalgia and stifled potential. The X-Men vote was probably the best idea of this entire "era" by virtue of the X-Men office actually giving a damn about learning what interests readers to any extent, opening the door to possibly making real innovations and exploring stuff with tons of untapped potential. But even that never really went much of anywhere. In Lorna's case, so far all it's done is have her appear in half of a year's issues and start drinking coffee. All else has been typical mix of reinforcing misguided nostalgia and ignoring key issues for the character. It hasn't led to them doing a deeper dive into understanding Lorna or interest in her and pursuing her potential in any real way. It didn't even lead to them bothering to care about her reaction to her own father's death, pouring all opportunities with it only into Storm's reaction.

True innovation requires a deep analysis of the fiction paired with a willingness to tap into unused potential, while not being beholden to nostalgia above all else. The X-Men office hasn't demonstrated any of that in my estimation. It usually only happens if some outside pressure forces the office to change, like Captain Britain happening due to external scandal over Psylocke having been a white woman in an Asian body alongside all the Cebulski stuff.

I know fans of the X-Men comics here will greatly disagree with what I've said, which is to be expected when you're posting on a sub-board dedicated to X-Men on a forum devoted to comic books. It's still how it all looks to me.

I mean, it's all been done before, true. You didn't even mention all the ironic Inhumans influences. That said, you can tell, whether it went over well or not, they were trying to reinvent some things and put things in new light, and try a wholly new vibe. Maybe they didn't always succeed in being revolutionary, but the thought, the attempt, the ambition to shake foundations (in just about everything except the 60s depiction of what a female hero would be in Jean Grey) was there. All stories have been done before by this point in humanity, but regardless of quality at any given point, you can tell that they were trying to swing for the fences.


The vibe I get now is "'member the mansion?" "'member baseball?" "Oh! I 'member!"

And watch the first thing they do once we do away with resurrection is some lame cover with a "who is dead? ooooooh" premise.

[Hakka84]

I agree that the execution has fallen short of the promise. To me, the Krakoa era's legacy is untapped potential, because they defaulted to a ton of events and X-tropes instead of genuinely thinking about what a Mutant nation would be like. Even ideas like Mutant magic were meaningless and half-baked.

Amen.
But I don't disagree with Salarta either.

The industry never really moved past that.

I don't see this as an example of "women with breasts bigger than their heads".
The boobies here look quite balanced for the body size of Emma. Also, look natural (ie: not two balls hanging under the skin). I used to wear a corset similar to this many years ago (when I was younger and not fat) and my breasts looked exactly like Emma's here.

[yogaflame]

I agree that the execution has fallen short of the promise. To me, the Krakoa era's legacy is untapped potential, because they defaulted to a ton of events and X-tropes instead of genuinely thinking about what a Mutant nation would be like. Even ideas like Mutant magic were meaningless and half-baked.

I disagree on the resurrection protocols. I think that was innovative because it officially took death off the table as a stake for an entire line of characters in and out of story. I loved the idea of forcing writers and fans to think differently.

I agree the Krakoa era will be defined by its squandered potential. I disagree about the RP's. It wasn't innovative at all, and if anything, death became completely meaningless and leaned into MORE for the sake of gratuitous violence. No novelty in thought, for writers or the audience, seemed to come from it.

[CGAR]

Thats one of the things that I liked Hickman calling out. That he allowed the writers to use that too much. He should have been more firm though. It was his job to go over what the writers were doing but he said MANY times that he didnt want to because he didnt want to hinder writers. BUT if you really think about it some of the DoX writers needed to be pushed outside their comfort zone to create better stories for the Krakoa era and/or need to stop using inifinite deaths as a story beat.

[cranger]

Sometimes I think Inferno was partly Hickman's memoir of working with the X-Office.

I hope the next era happens without all of the hoopla. While it felt great to see the franchise get so much marketing there was no way it was going to live up to the way they compared it to everything and were so open (and yet vague) about the alleged plan.

[Omega Alpha]

There was also the rumor that Bendis killed off Rhodey because he thought he was going to die in the Civil War movie, but I'm not sure how true that is.

Probably false, Rhodey was Carol's boyfriend and Tony's BFF, he would be the natural target to create drama

[Keno]

I think we're putting too much stock in how Tom personally feels about characters or relationships. That doesn't mean he's going to dictate to his writers how they should handle those things, or even which characters they should use, or who should be front and center in the books/line; or how many males vs females, POCs, etc. And I seriously doubt he's going to say, "Hey guys let's ensure whatever we do it is dumbed down for kids, with zero weirdness, and doesn't touch real world geopolitics."

I mean, I suppose it's possible, but I just don't see that being an edict for the next era.

He is putting an entire overhaul of change in x-line that will follow his vision. I don't think it going to matter if the writers are working on different characters then.

[ARkadelphia]

I'm underlining something said here that I disagree with. I've disagreed with it for this whole "era." I just haven't been all too vocal about it lately.

What I've seen hasn't been all that innovative. So they made a mutant version of a Lazarus pit. It's not the first time the concept of resurrecting the dead has occurred in superhero comics. And this version of it isn't even really resurrecting the dead, it's more like taking the conceit of Madelyne Pryor and using it for all mutants. So they have a mutant nation. It's like the one millionth mutant nation in the past 20 years. The Omega mutant classifications are as biased as ever, the portals aren't exactly a new concept, a "mutant language" is something tons of scifi and fantasy have been doing for at least half a century (heck, in video games FF10 did it over 20 years ago), etc etc etc. The only two things that seemed arguably innovative to me were the land used for this nation also being a mutant, and mutants terraforming a planet. The latter is something that IMO hasn't really meant much outside of hardcore fandom, and ironically ticked off most fans in the pre-Fox buyout period for looking like a way to get rid of mutants in the Marvel universe.

Meanwhile, when you dig into the actual substance of the comics, nearly all of it just came off to me as regurgitated nostalgia and stifled potential. The X-Men vote was probably the best idea of this entire "era" by virtue of the X-Men office actually giving a damn about learning what interests readers to any extent, opening the door to possibly making real innovations and exploring stuff with tons of untapped potential. But even that never really went much of anywhere. In Lorna's case, so far all it's done is have her appear in half of a year's issues and start drinking coffee. All else has been typical mix of reinforcing misguided nostalgia and ignoring key issues for the character. It hasn't led to them doing a deeper dive into understanding Lorna or interest in her and pursuing her potential in any real way. It didn't even lead to them bothering to care about her reaction to her own father's death, pouring all opportunities with it only into Storm's reaction.

True innovation requires a deep analysis of the fiction paired with a willingness to tap into unused potential, while not being beholden to nostalgia above all else. The X-Men office hasn't demonstrated any of that in my estimation. It usually only happens if some outside pressure forces the office to change, like Captain Britain happening due to external scandal over Psylocke having been a white woman in an Asian body alongside all the Cebulski stuff.

I know fans of the X-Men comics here will greatly disagree with what I've said, which is to be expected when you're posting on a sub-board dedicated to X-Men on a forum devoted to comic books. It's still how it all looks to me.

Which titles of the Krakoa era have you read?

[ARkadelphia]

Probably false, Rhodey was Carol's boyfriend and Tony's BFF, he would be the natural target to create drama

Well now we’re getting into a chicken and the egg situation. Rhodes was not in a relationship with Carol at the time. That all happened off-panel as an introduction to the storyline.

[salarta]

Which titles of the Krakoa era have you read?

Which titles of the Krakoa era do you think were innovative, and what made them innovative?

[CGAR]

Im not him but I think some of the elevated runs we've had didnt come from any of the DoX writers.

Al Ewing, Kieron Gillen, Zeb Wells, and Vita Ayala really did what the DoX writers should have tried to be doing from the start.