Tom Brevoort to become X-Men's Senior Editor

[charliehustle415]

Man, he's already getting annoyed? The X-Fandom is going to eat him alive.

X-fans acting like degenerates color me surprised.

[Kingdom X]

Tom’s response here is the de facto marvel response. Not to say he came up with it or the reverse, who can know that.

It’s a deceptive way to look at it. It’s looking at marvel and saying: “what a grand house! It’s ever so splendid it’s not even a house, it’s a mansion!” While never bothering to check the insides of the house, to see that several rooms have rotted away. Leaving the whole thing in danger of collapsing.

If they had such good mapping of buyers that they knew why the majority bought what they bought. What they liked with it and what they didn’t. But as he says they don’t have the manpower for that. From what I have heard they rely on stores condensing information from their consumers. With many big IF’s here. They might have cut back or eliminated that.

I get why they eliminate all of us in the sense that; who knows how many we represent. But to ignore the only ones who communicate with them, politely or less so, well that is a dangerous game.

If this July X-Men relaunch is bad this might be my exit from Big 2 comics as a whole. Like you said, i don’t think they should be bending to fans whims but to be like, “just ignore them,” is so sold wild to me. ESPECIALLY, because comics fandom has done nothing but shrink over the years.

To have a sales model where no one knows what’s going on is beyond insane. Whole time they’re increasing the price of books, cancelling said books more frequently, and charging the same amount for digital even though those sales “don’t count”. Not to mention the fact that each run feels like a reboot (something Brevoort said in a previous one of these) leading to very little long-term growth and continuity. Amidst all that it takes a LOT of loyalty to be a comics fan, and the reward is, “yeah don’t listen to them cause the dummies will always buy ASM no matter what we do.”

Sorry for the pessimism lol

[skyvolt2000]

Torn on Tom's words. I get that internet fan reception isn't always indicative of the fandom; they're just small splinters of a wider fanbase, and one that's easier to see. But like, Spider-Man is going to sell no matter what. Titles and name brands are more important than actual content 90% of the time. It's possible that there's a huge, unseen audience that like the Wells run. But it's even more likely that the book has a ton of zombie readers and collectors. Like 900% of the issues in the Wells run have 50 billion variant covers. Any audience would be buying the books out of habit/collection, hate-reading, or to get a kick out of the perversion that book did to its characters and storytelling.

For example, I refuse to believe anyone was actually reading Aaron's Avengers unironically. I don't care what anyone says about having differing opinions and respecting subjective tastes; that book was the equivalent of getting a back-alley colonoscopy from a man with a hook hand. Even other books at the time were taking a few jabs at Aaron's changes, like dunking on She-Hulk becoming dumb and ugly. Just cause a book sells regardless, doesn't mean you should just allow it to fester like a rotting cyst that makes your whole brand look bad. I know the internet fandoms don't represent the entire fanbase, but you can still get a good indicator on the general flow of things.
.

Correction it's a book that will get HIGH orders no matter what. Just like Batman.

And unlike Ms Marvel and POC lead books most stores are not going to complain about piles of unsold books.

And how many variants does ASM have? That don't get listed? I have seen many variants for all the Spider books that I never saw on Final Order Cutoff nor Preview Worlds catalog. Yet they are on Ebay.

Also what folks forget is some of these books have automatic sales that don't include fans. How many of these books are bought by libraries and schools?

When you know you got money coming in no matter what-would you honestly care?

I know some of us would.....

[skyvolt2000]

Well then.
https://tombrevoort.substack.com/p/9...es-without-any

None of it especially bothers me, but it did come onto my radar, as this morning I got looped into a social media thread in which some people were upset by the secret master plan that editor Wil Moss and I had to undermine the Black Panther by getting John Ridley to write his series and to make T’Challa fallible in that series. Now, getting Ridley to handle that assignment was in no way my doing, but beyond that, can you imagine any world where you wouldn’t want one of the most prominent screenwriters, a man who’s won an Academy Award for his writing, to helm such a title? I can’t. But because some people didn’t like the story that John told, there must be a reason, must be an active conspiracy to explain why. And a big part of this job is in being the responsible party.

Then why isn't Ridley working for DC or Marvel now instead of IDW?

[Pantherflash]

If this July X-Men relaunch is bad this might be my exit from Big 2 comics as a whole. Like you said, i don’t think they should be bending to fans whims but to be like, “just ignore them,” is so sold wild to me. ESPECIALLY, because comics fandom has done nothing but shrink over the years.

To have a sales model where no one knows what’s going on is beyond insane. Whole time they’re increasing the price of books, cancelling said books more frequently, and charging the same amount for digital even though those sales “don’t count”. Not to mention the fact that each run feels like a reboot (something Brevoort said in a previous one of these) leading to very little long-term growth and continuity. Amidst all that it takes a LOT of loyalty to be a comics fan, and the reward is, “yeah don’t listen to them cause the dummies will always buy ASM no matter what we do.”

Sorry for the pessimism lol

I'm a patient guy so I'll see what Gail Simone(She's not bad, but some in the X-men fandom don't want another 'feminist' writer after Tini Howard) has to offer this summer, but the overall direction comes from Brevoort. Having the X-men go back into the Mansion is out of the question. Do the mutant community want to be a coffin? I dropped X-men after Synch's death(Missing most of Morrison's era, but briefly returned for X-23's debut issue) and later the depressing mess that started Bendis(Mr. IDGAF about continuity) popular Avengers run leading to the Avenger franchise high selling era collaborating with the MCU movies.

I still haven't pull a single Spider-Man comic since One More Day.

skyvolt2000:Yeah it's one of the highest shipped from retailers by orders, but that's what is so jarring about Wells and Lowe ASM Post Paul Saga getaway....

[Nisus]

It was promising from the beginning (Dark Celestials), but something was up with Aaron's ideas and then it went off rails. Though the Mephisto being Tony's dad and the Phoenix Force as Thor's mother was just...

I wasn't sure why Brevoort allowed it.

Even Wells and Lowe continue to sell ASM after the Paul saga(Next to One More Day as one of the worst Spider-Man story arcs) and it's pissing alot of Spiderman fans off. But Aaron's Avengers run has to be the most bizarre.

Well, Brevoort said that if you’re relying on the history or the continuity to tell the story, you’re not telling your story. I guess for him it's more important that the writer tell his story, even though it crashes with continuity, other concurrent ongoings and the common sense.

For example, I refuse to believe anyone was actually reading Aaron's Avengers unironically. I don't care what anyone says about having differing opinions and respecting subjective tastes; that book was the equivalent of getting a back-alley colonoscopy from a man with a hook hand. Even other books at the time were taking a few jabs at Aaron's changes, like dunking on She-Hulk becoming dumb and ugly. Just cause a book sells regardless, doesn't mean you should just allow it to fester like a rotting cyst that makes your whole brand look bad.

It surprised me that, despite all the multiverse-shattering events, Aaron's Avengers was hardly referenced in other comics. One can only hope it was an alternate reality.

[Hakka84]

And how many variants does ASM have? That don't get listed? I have seen many variants for all the Spider books that I never saw on Final Order Cutoff nor Preview Worlds catalog. Yet they are on Ebay.

Could you be speaking about comic shops exclusive variants? Unknown Comics is the biggest "culprit", but there are also other big comic shops name that commission their own exclusive cover. We're not taking about "1:500 incentive virgin variant" or "[event] anniversary variant", but variants that are usually listed either by the artist's name or the comic book (which logo you might see usually on the back cover).
Those aren't listed on Preview World, and you can get them only from either the comic shop who commissioned the printing or through a reseller on Ebay.
[example here]

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

It's a bit silly to be upset if people say they expect negative things with story reins changing hands. It's part of the shebang and something to get over during the first couple of years of putting out massively-known IP content, never mind being decades into doing it. But of course, he is allowed to be human and feel things.

That said, he should consider that the prospects of the coming setup appear to be ostensibly about taking away something that many people liked. Some are also looking at this upcoming setup as being "back to basics" or "classic," or, as I am fond of saying, "like the cartoon." Maybe there is no concrete evidence for that, but that's the feeling I am getting, and that feeling does not inspire confidence, personally. Frankly, having read his opinions for over 10 years, I doubt we are of similar taste in characters and stories. All that to say, if some number of people are looking ahead at the new management wearily, I don't think that is completely unwarranted. All that said, they haven't put anything out in regards to what the next era entails, so I can understand him being put off at not being given an unblemished fair chance to wow everyone. But really, that's not something he should have ever expected, tbh, as that's just not how fanaticism about characters is.

That said, if he is annoyed, but next era turns out to be rather basic and "remember baseball????"-ish, he won't have had any right to be upset, in my opinion

[charliehustle415]

Well, Brevoort said that if you’re relying on the history or the continuity to tell the story, you’re not telling your story. I guess for him it's more important that the writer tell his story, even though it crashes with continuity, other concurrent ongoings and the common sense.

to me this is what gives me hope, I could care less for continuity.

I want to see authorship and not continuity or fan kowtowing.

[JB]

Well, Brevoort said that if you’re relying on the history or the continuity to tell the story, you’re not telling your story. I guess for him it's more important that the writer tell his story, even though it crashes with continuity, other concurrent ongoings and the common sense.

The quote is also from 2012 and he has since written a lot about his views on continuity and other things on his substack. It's honestly worth checking out just generally speaking as he gives a lot of insight about the biz.

It seems he's not just annoyed with negative forecasts of his era as he mentions the Black Panther/Ridley conspiracy that was way off the mark. Unfortunately we as fans get lumped in with such looneys.

[Winter_fury]

Correction it's a book that will get HIGH orders no matter what. Just like Batman.

And unlike Ms Marvel and POC lead books most stores are not going to complain about piles of unsold books.

And how many variants does ASM have? That don't get listed? I have seen many variants for all the Spider books that I never saw on Final Order Cutoff nor Preview Worlds catalog. Yet they are on Ebay.

Also what folks forget is some of these books have automatic sales that don't include fans. How many of these books are bought by libraries and schools?

When you know you got money coming in no matter what-would you honestly care?

I know some of us would.....

It a outdated way of thinking going of orders from comic stores. When you have to look at digital sales, at how trades sales.

[Malachi]

If this July X-Men relaunch is bad this might be my exit from Big 2 comics as a whole. Like you said, i don’t think they should be bending to fans whims but to be like, “just ignore them,” is so sold wild to me. ESPECIALLY, because comics fandom has done nothing but shrink over the years.

To have a sales model where no one knows what’s going on is beyond insane. Whole time they’re increasing the price of books, cancelling said books more frequently, and charging the same amount for digital even though those sales “don’t count”. Not to mention the fact that each run feels like a reboot (something Brevoort said in a previous one of these) leading to very little long-term growth and continuity. Amidst all that it takes a LOT of loyalty to be a comics fan, and the reward is, “yeah don’t listen to them cause the dummies will always buy ASM no matter what we do.”

Sorry for the pessimism lol

Nah don’t worry about sounding pessimistic.

In general the onus is upon Brevoort to prove to us that he is “right”. Considering all the things we know of him and the situation is that he was talked into this and he stopped keeping up with the X-men in the 80’s.

He might do better or worse, who knows. The only thing we know so far is that there isn’t much hype building. Just Brevoort alone and the fact that Krakoa is ending has most in a wait-and-see mode.

It feels like all the talk about sales are dwindling down to a: we don’t know and neither do you, so why are we talking about it. When marvels argument on Spider-Man is that it sells but they don’t know why or how much and therefore pessimistic people on the internet should shut up… well they are killing the discussions. Good or bad. What are we left with to talk? Just one liners either praising it or raising it.

[Mutant X]

We have that Steve Jobs Quote:

“Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.”

And I tend to agree with that.
Last time Marvel gave what readers wanted we got Mark Guggenheim's X-men Gold. The lowest point in the X-men franchise since the 90's.

So I'll give Brevoort the benefit of the doubt and let him present his approach for the team.

[DarkMagnus]

I didnt hate his years as a Avenger editor it was more a Bendis problem than he as the problem

I only want one thing to keep Krakoa and also dont.

In that way the Krakoan believers well be happy and also the Krakoan haters will be.

a sort of "amicable Schism or reorganization"

Some mutants wants Earth and Krakoa other screw earth ask Orchis to save you when things gets horrid. and can go to Arakko.

And with that make a new and different status quo

[Kingdom X]

We have that Steve Jobs Quote:



And I tend to agree with that.
Last time Marvel gave what readers wanted we got Mark Guggenheim's X-men Gold. The lowest point in the X-men franchise since the 90's.

So I'll give Brevoort the benefit of the doubt and let him present his approach for the team.

While you have a subset of the fandom that is ALWAYS going to say they want a full on repeat of the 80s Claremont days, I think most folks just wanted out of the extinction events around that time. To imply that fans brought on the Gold/Blue era and not MARVEL wanting to keep the franchise away from progess (at least until the Fox deal) seems like a mischaracterization of how that all went down.

And again I agree that creators should never fully bend to fans whims, but also I don’t think listening to consumer feedback should be demonized. ESPECIALLY, when their product isn’t selling at all like it used too.