The Intermediate Era After the Clone Saga Before the Volume 2 Relaunch

[bob.schoonover]

God speed. You’re a braver person than I am. Not much good in the relaunch era, although Slingers and Webspinners was fun.

This was a great retrospective thread and I commend your efforts. This could easily be a recurring column published on one of the comic sites. Look forward to the next one. No plans for the Clone Saga? I guess it’s already been covered fairly extensively.

I'm strongly thinking about doing a message board Clone Saga read/re-read starting in April (once I get the last omnibus I'm missing). Unless someone else is more foolish than I and starts it earlier. I'm thinking about starting with the original Clone Saga, then the 90s one, then maybe maybe maybe reading Who was Ben Reilly?, Spider Island and Clone Conspiracy. Maybe.

[Mister Mets]

I'm strongly thinking about doing a message board Clone Saga read/re-read starting in April (once I get the last omnibus I'm missing). Unless someone else is more foolish than I and starts it earlier. I'm thinking about starting with the original Clone Saga, then the 90s one, then maybe maybe maybe reading Who was Ben Reilly?, Spider Island and Clone Conspiracy. Maybe.

I'm looking forward to it.

You could probably get started well before April, depending on which omnibus you're missing.

Some advice after three completed Spider-Man threads (plus one incomplete John Byrne Superman thread on another forum and one incomplete Heroes Return Avengers thread at CBR- I'll finish it soon, I swear!)...
- Have a few posts worth of inventory before you start. This way if you're busy one day, you can copy and paste what you've written before.
- Go with the level of detail that's comfortable for you. If you want to write several paragraphs about each issue, you're welcome to try. If you want to just cover each omnibus or TPB as one post, that's also fine. I found that an approach in between (2-3 single issue stories, 1-2 two-parters and one 3-4 parter per post) worked for me, but you might enjoy something different.
- Images add a lot, but there are ways to save time.
- If you have a period when you're able to read a lot, save the content for future posts rather than trying to do it all at once. If you have a spare afternoon and read a few months worth of comics, it's probably better to dole it out over several posts on several days rather than to post it all at once.

[Triniking1234]

I'm strongly thinking about doing a message board Clone Saga read/re-read starting in April (once I get the last omnibus I'm missing). Unless someone else is more foolish than I and starts it earlier. I'm thinking about starting with the original Clone Saga, then the 90s one, then maybe maybe maybe reading Who was Ben Reilly?, Spider Island and Clone Conspiracy. Maybe.

I don't remember "Who was Ben Reilly?". Was that when ASM was coming out 3 times a month or am I thinking of something else?

[bob.schoonover]

I'm looking forward to it.

You could probably get started well before April, depending on which omnibus you're missing.

Some advice after three completed Spider-Man threads (plus one incomplete John Byrne Superman thread on another forum and one incomplete Heroes Return Avengers thread at CBR- I'll finish it soon, I swear!)...
- Have a few posts worth of inventory before you start. This way if you're busy one day, you can copy and paste what you've written before.
- Go with the level of detail that's comfortable for you. If you want to write several paragraphs about each issue, you're welcome to try. If you want to just cover each omnibus or TPB as one post, that's also fine. I found that an approach in between (2-3 single issue stories, 1-2 two-parters and one 3-4 parter per post) worked for me, but you might enjoy something different.
- Images add a lot, but there are ways to save time.
- If you have a period when you're able to read a lot, save the content for future posts rather than trying to do it all at once. If you have a spare afternoon and read a few months worth of comics, it's probably better to dole it out over several posts on several days rather than to post it all at once.

Thanks! I'll keep all that in mind. The 90s Clone Saga had a lot of 3-5 issue arcs and I'm hoping to use that structure.

The Omni I'll be waiting for is the 2nd of 4, due March 12, plus shipping time. I'm also waiting to get past March family travel

I don't remember "Who was Ben Reilly?". Was that when ASM was coming out 3 times a month or am I thinking of something else?

Yeah, it was around 608,I think?

[exile001]

I'm really curious on behind the scenes stuff with this run.

Something was obviously going on behind the scenes at the end, and it led to some weak conclusions.

Right? '99 DC was a bloodbath, but at least we could see that it was due to stagnant editors and creatives being let go in favour of an almost line-wide revamp.

Spidey just gets a revamp out of nowhere, with a creative lead at least a decade past his prime, and trying to force Spidey and his world into a box he'd outgrown decades prior. Really baffling all around.

[Mister Mets]

Right? '99 DC was a bloodbath, but at least we could see that it was due to stagnant editors and creatives being let go in favour of an almost line-wide revamp.

Spidey just gets a revamp out of nowhere, with a creative lead at least a decade past his prime, and trying to force Spidey and his world into a box he'd outgrown decades prior. Really baffling all around.

It seems there had to be some last minute stuff, given the dropped threads and filler stories by DeFalco.

I can understand how Marvel determined the new creative teams.
DeFalco was okay, but his second run on Amazing Spider-Man wasn't as good as it used to be. With What If?# 105 selling out and Marvel impressed with character sketches, he was ready to headline the MC2 books, which certainly worked out well for Marvel.
Dematteis was also okay, but his second run on Spectacular Spider-Man wasn't as good as it used to be. He seems to have had a few unresolved stories (Conundrum, Mad Jack, the second Green Goblin) and often needed a co-writer, so he didn't seem reliable enough to headline the main book.
DeZago was okay, but not a top ten writer.
Mackie has shortcomings as a writer, especially with long-term planning, but A-list artists like working with him, Peter Parker Spider-Man sold well and it seems he was dependable.

John Byrne was a legend, who had relaunched the Superman books, so I could see why Marvel wanted him. Problems are that he's old-fashioned and has difficulty working with others.

This was just before the emergence of a new generation of writers like Bendis, JMS and Brian K Vaughan.

With the benefit of hindsight, the best move would have been to give a little bit more time to tie up loose ends. That way they can end with Peter Parker Spider-Man #100 (and anyone involved in the relaunch would get a head start; this assumes a company going through bankruptcy had the cash on hand to pay for work months in advance.)

I've been convinced after Brand New Day that a higher output of Amazing Spider-Man is the way to go, so a twice-monthly book would have made sense. I don't know if the market was ready for it yet.

They should have offered the lead writer spot to Joe Kelly. I don't know if office politics would have allowed that, although that would be more about a toxic environment. Other potential writers would be Peter David and Kurt Busiek.

One solution would be...
Howard Mackie and John Romita Jr. stay on Peter Parker Spider-Man, telling crime stories.
Joe Kelly gets Amazing Spider-Man with a dynamic (bright) superhero artist, telling traditional superhero stories.
Spider-Man: Chapter One is modeled more on something like Batman: The Long Halloween. The idea is that this will be an evergreen origin story for the character, to be collected in TPB form. Frankly, it might be better to skip that and promote Untold Tales (while reprinting the Amazing Fantasy mini-series.)

An alternate would be a thrice-monthly Amazing Spider-Man with writers like Joe Kelly, Howard Mackie and Peter David.

Webspinners had some good stories, and I get why Marvel wanted their own version of the Legends of the Dark Knight, but it sold poorly and was pitched as something continuity-heavy. The best stories could have been done as annuals or mini-series.

Thanks! I'll keep all that in mind. The 90s Clone Saga had a lot of 3-5 issue arcs and I'm hoping to use that structure.

The Omni I'll be waiting for is the 2nd of 4, due March 12, plus shipping time. I'm also waiting to get past March family travel

Yeah, it was around 608,I think?

I think it was 608-610, and an annual. The whole point of the story was to have a mystery about Ben's missing years, and it brought another clone saga type into the mix.

I can definitely appreciate that you don't want to spend all your time time on a family trip posting about comics. That's grounds for divorce and disowning.