The Intermediate Era After the Clone Saga Before the Volume 2 Relaunch

[Mister Mets]

I consulted Spiderfan’s list of Spider-Man comics published in 1997 to see what I missed.
https://spiderfan.org/year/comics/1997.html

The Spider-Man/ Badrock mini-series seems to be outside the Spider-Man office, so I’ll skip those, along with appearances in Silver Surfer #128-129, even if it is written by JM DeMatteis. There are some clone saga adjacent one-shots (The Osborn Journal, 101 Ways to End the Clone Saga) that seem to be more codas to that era than something new. Spider-Boy Team Up is its own thing, as is the Marvel Adventures monthly. I’m only going to check out What If? Issues that tie into the current events of the main book, or feature connections with creative teams.

Batman and Spider-Man seems to be a sequel to Spider-Man/ Batman. I’ve covered those elsewhere.

Spider-Man does pop up in some Venom stories. At the time, Venom was basically a monthly title (and even available for subscriptions and a Flashback month tie-in), but they were releasing it in chunks as mini-series. I thought about starting with Tooth & Claw, a Wolverine crossover, but then I realized Hama had been on earlier, including an encounter with the Ben Reilly Spider-Man, so I’ll start with a mini that does feature Spidey.



Venom: On Trial #1-3
The basic idea is pretty simple. Venom is defeated and put on trial. Matt Murdoch is his defense attorney and calls Spider-Man as a witness. The state calls Carnage as a witness, unaware that tranquilizers to shut down the symbiotes are getting steadily less effective.
As far as comic book trials go, it’s okay (although the Peter David one-shot was better.) It gets into some interesting legal and moral questions. Within the logic of the comic, I’m convinced that this is a big trial that causes a lot of commotion. The main knock is that I’d have been sold on that more if it was mentioned in any of the other Spider-Man comics, since this is a weeks-long trial involving one of his A-list enemies.
Venom doesn’t have much of a supporting cast, but the story hums along. It’s quite accessible, which helps for a story that does set up a new status quo. Venom’s a hard character to write for, especially when he’s the protagonist, since there are fans who like him because he’s edgy and there are other fans who view him as everything wrong with comics. Hama walks the line with an Eddie Brock who feels right. You can appreciate that he’s cocky, or view it as a character flaw that Hama’s obviously aware of.
Spider-Man’s role is fine. Larry Hama has an okay sense of his voice. Josh Hood’s art is not on the level of the other titles. It’s mostly passable, although obviously a product of the 90s. There is a twist involving a discovery from an earlier Venom story. The timing is convenient, but I do like how it changes things for the DA.
B-



Venom: License to Kill #1-3
The follow-up arc to “On Trial” shows what the new status quo would be like. Venom goes on missions to take out bad people, and he’s such a loose cannon that it freaks out his minders.
The status quo doesn’t last very long. It makes sense for Hama, best known for his work on GI Joe, to focus on this type of international espionage. It is very cliched, with the military placing bombs in Brock to make sure he complies (this was likely more daring and compelling in the late 90s.) There is an interesting dynamic with the main bad guy, who is trying to provide expensive care for a son who is a carrier for a very dangerous disease. But I can’t really recommend this.
C-

There’s another mini-series “Sign of the Boss” by Ivan Velez and Tom Derenick, which I’m not going to cover here. I’ll check out ‘The Finale’ mini-series since that features Spider-Man, and seems to tie up loose ends from Hama’s run, as well as Hama and penciller Mark Pajarillo’s Venom agenda one-shot.

[Chubistian]

Many of the Spider-Man comicbooks I read as a kid where from this period. They were easy to find and cheap, published by the Mexican editorial VID. Had a lot of fun reading them back then. I don't know how they hold up, but I loved the Norman Osborn subplot. Back then, I had no idea about the Clone Saga and didn't get how big of a deal was to have the original Green Goblin back: my way to catch up with what had happened before were the comics themselves; no forums, no magazines, no nothing. Also, it would take me a lot to complete a story; I remember I had a hard time tracking the 3-part Dr Octopus' resurrection story (loved the art), or the Kraven's son arch. Fun and simpler old times

[xpyred]

I’ll check out ‘The Finale’ mini-series since that features Spider-Man, and seems to tie up loose ends from Hama’s run, as well as Hama and penciller Mark Pajarillo’s Venom agenda one-shot.

Marvel.com list's the artist as Mark Pajarillo and the cover artist as Kyle Hotz but the cover and interiors are actuall done by Tom Lyle

[exile001]

The Spider-Man/ Badrock mini-series seems to be outside the Spider-Man office, so I’ll skip those

An extremely wise move.

Also, unless I'm misremembering, I believe this was the abomination released as issues 1A and 1B. Because EVERYTHING must be issue 1. Lol.

Venom: On Trial #1-3 The basic idea is pretty simple.

So much so this is at least the second time they did it! Lol.

[Mister Mets]

The Daily Bugle #1-3
This was published a few months earlier than the comics I'm covering, but it is an example of what the spider-offices are up to when they’re being somewhat experimental. It’s a black & white mini-series by Paul Grist (Jack Staff) and artist Karl Kerschel focusing on Betty Brant and other Bugle folks in their investigations. It was recently collected with other Daily Bugle centered projects for a TPB, which I got quite cheap digitally on a Kindle sale.
Years ago, there were arguments that black and white comics were superior, and somehow more authentic. This has largely faded with color getting cheaper so that there are less incentives for comics to be black and white, but it is weird to see a mainstream comic try to tackle that. Artistically, it reminds me a bit of David Mack’s Kabuki, and Bendis’ early crime work. It has a decent sense of mood.

The story itself is okay. Betty is sent for a puff piece on a growing fast food chain, but it may have mob connections. The investigation has some interesting twists, and is the focus of the larger mini-series. But there are also some smaller standalone stories, which are the highlights. First, they get evidence that a well-meaning politician is having an affair and leaving himself vulnerable to blackmail, which leads to difficult moral questions. Jonah gets angry that Spider-Man’s on the cover, so he decides to investigate the real story that’s being buried about sabotage and arson at a new development (The set-up is similar to Bill Mantlo and Ed Hannigan’s Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man #80 but it works for this mini-series and it does go in a new direction.) Veteran reporter Charles Snow (an existing character who popped up in “Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut,” which is a surprise for me) struggled with his drinking. And we mainly see Peter Parker through the eyes of others, as a guy who is often tardy but comes through in the end.

B+ (I’ve only read this comic once, so it’s possible I’d change the grade on a second read. This is quite different from other comics and it’s standalone, which makes it harder to assess. The final grade would be somewhere between an “A” and a “B”)

[Mister Mets]

Many of the Spider-Man comicbooks I read as a kid where from this period. They were easy to find and cheap, published by the Mexican editorial VID. Had a lot of fun reading them back then. I don't know how they hold up, but I loved the Norman Osborn subplot. Back then, I had no idea about the Clone Saga and didn't get how big of a deal was to have the original Green Goblin back: my way to catch up with what had happened before were the comics themselves; no forums, no magazines, no nothing. Also, it would take me a lot to complete a story; I remember I had a hard time tracking the 3-part Dr Octopus' resurrection story (loved the art), or the Kraven's son arch. Fun and simpler old times

These were some of the first Spider-Man comics I picked up as they were coming out, so it's meaningful to me as well.

Marvel.com list's the artist as Mark Pajarillo and the cover artist as Kyle Hotz but the cover and interiors are actuall done by Tom Lyle

I got the info off Marvel.com.

I'll get a better sense of what's going on in a few days.

An extremely wise move.

Also, unless I'm misremembering, I believe this was the abomination released as issues 1A and 1B. Because EVERYTHING must be issue 1. Lol.



So much so this is at least the second time they did it! Lol.

To be honest, I liked the Peter David one-shot more.

[HypnoHustler]

The Daily Bugle #1-3
This was published a few months earlier than the comics I'm covering, but it is an example of what the spider-offices are up to when they’re being somewhat experimental. It’s a black & white mini-series by Paul Grist (Jack Staff) and artist Karl Kerschel focusing on Betty Brant and other Bugle folks in their investigations. It was recently collected with other Daily Bugle centered projects for a TPB, which I got quite cheap digitally on a Kindle sale.
Years ago, there were arguments that black and white comics were superior, and somehow more authentic. This has largely faded with color getting cheaper so that there are less incentives for comics to be black and white, but it is weird to see a mainstream comic try to tackle that. Artistically, it reminds me a bit of David Mack’s Kabuki, and Bendis’ early crime work. It has a decent sense of mood.

The story itself is okay. Betty is sent for a puff piece on a growing fast food chain, but it may have mob connections. The investigation has some interesting twists, and is the focus of the larger mini-series. But there are also some smaller standalone stories, which are the highlights. First, they get evidence that a well-meaning politician is having an affair and leaving himself vulnerable to blackmail, which leads to difficult moral questions. Jonah gets angry that Spider-Man’s on the cover, so he decides to investigate the real story that’s being buried about sabotage and arson at a new development (The set-up is similar to Bill Mantlo and Ed Hannigan’s Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man #80 but it works for this mini-series and it does go in a new direction.) Veteran reporter Charles Snow (an existing character who popped up in “Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut,” which is a surprise for me) struggled with his drinking. And we mainly see Peter Parker through the eyes of others, as a guy who is often tardy but comes through in the end.

B+ (I’ve only read this comic once, so it’s possible I’d change the grade on a second read. This is quite different from other comics and it’s standalone, which makes it harder to assess. The final grade would be somewhere between an “A” and a “B”)

It’s so weird. I remember reading this and even some of the panels in the art, but I could’ve sworn it was in color. Shows how unreliable memory can be.

There was also a Daily Bugle mini in the early 00s, right? In which Norman murdered a reporter named Terri Kidder iirc. Beyond focusing on the same workplace, they probably have very different vibes.

[xpyred]

It’s so weird. I remember reading this and even some of the panels in the art, but I could’ve sworn it was in color. Shows how unreliable memory can be.

There was also a Daily Bugle mini in the early 00s, right? In which Norman murdered a reporter named Terri Kidder iirc. Beyond focusing on the same workplace, they probably have very different vibes.

That was The Pulse series. It was a continuation to Alias.

[Mister Mets]

Amazing Spider-Man #429
This story is set within 24 hours of Spider-Man attacking Norman Osborn in Spectacular #250. The public is scared of Spidey (which makes for a decent encounter with hoods on Page 3) and former enemies see it as an opportunity to strike.
Absorbing Man and Titania pretend to be new superheroes to be like the Thunderbolts, unaware that this makes them more like the new superheroes than they figured. (Weirdly I’m covering the Thunderbolts in a reread of Heroes Return-era Avengers titles, so this does connect to another reading project.)
Norman Osborn takes advantage of the mess. Daredevil pops by, which makes sense for a variety of reasons. The Absorbing Man/ Titania dynamic is one DeFalco has explored before, and it’s a solid excuse for a single issue team-up here. I don’t care for the scenes where MJ’s upset because I don't buy that this situation is so unusual, but I do like Robbie standing up to Jonah. Bennet’s art is decent. He’s been a bit of a mixed bag in this era, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there were explanations for the inconsistency, but his work in this issue is on the level of someone asked to draw Amazing Spider-Man.
B+



Deadpool #11
This was not made by the Spider-Man office, but it does have a big impact. Writer Joe Kelly and Artist Ed McGuinness have had multiple subsequent runs on Spidey, and I’ve seen this on a few best of lists.
Deadpool and Blind Al goes back in time to the events of Amazing Spider-Man #47, a relatively standard silver age comic in which Kraven interrupted Flash Thompson’s going away party (that same story tied into an untold tale in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1996 as well as the Loeb/ Sale Spider-Man: Blue mini-series.
They accidentally KO Aunt May, so Blind Al has to pretend to be her. Deadpool has an encounter with a vicious nun, but wants to take advantage of being in an earlier era, by getting with celebrities before they were famous and developed higher standards. To keep his identity secret, he has to pretend to be Peter Parker. And if you think this is a recipe for comedy, you’re right. In terms of number of laughs and joke density, this is one of the funniest Spider-Man comics ever.
It was a bit weird reading some Venom mini-series a few days ago, given the efforts to make a bad guy palpable to readers without hurting Marvel’s overall brand. Deadpool’s crazier. At this point, he was pretty much a bad guy with a monthly title. He’s years away from taking redemption seriously, which is an interesting dynamic.

Deadpool was McGuinness’ breakout project, and this issue really shows his skills, with sequences in the present done in his standard cartoony style, while sequences set in the past are drawn in a style that fits John Romita Sr. The jokes are much more risque than we’re used to in the Spider-Man comics, which kinda fits my argument that part of the backlash to One More Day was that some fans expected tamer material. That said, keeping the G-rated Stan Lee stuff is a reminder that his gags were pretty solid.
A+ (So far this is the top Spider-Man comic I've read as part of this era.)

[Mister Mets]

It’s so weird. I remember reading this and even some of the panels in the art, but I could’ve sworn it was in color. Shows how unreliable memory can be.

There was also a Daily Bugle mini in the early 00s, right? In which Norman murdered a reporter named Terri Kidder iirc. Beyond focusing on the same workplace, they probably have very different vibes.

There were several.

So there was another mini-series called Deadline, which was also collected in the Daily Bugle TPB.

You are correctly remembering the opening arc of The Pulse, an effort by Brian Michael Bendis to bring Jessica Jones into the regular Marvel Universe.

[HypnoHustler]

Amazing Spider-Man #429
This story is set within 24 hours of Spider-Man attacking Norman Osborn in Spectacular #250. The public is scared of Spidey (which makes for a decent encounter with hoods on Page 3) and former enemies see it as an opportunity to strike.
Absorbing Man and Titania pretend to be new superheroes to be like the Thunderbolts, unaware that this makes them more like the new superheroes than they figured. (Weirdly I’m covering the Thunderbolts in a reread of Heroes Return-era Avengers titles, so this does connect to another reading project.)
Norman Osborn takes advantage of the mess. Daredevil pops by, which makes sense for a variety of reasons. The Absorbing Man/ Titania dynamic is one DeFalco has explored before, and it’s a solid excuse for a single issue team-up here. I don’t care for the scenes where MJ’s upset because I don't buy that this situation is so unusual, but I do like Robbie standing up to Jonah. Bennet’s art is decent. He’s been a bit of a mixed bag in this era, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there were explanations for the inconsistency, but his work in this issue is on the level of someone asked to draw Amazing Spider-Man.
B+



Deadpool #11
This was not made by the Spider-Man office, but it does have a big impact. Writer Joe Kelly and Artist Ed McGuinness have had multiple subsequent runs on Spidey, and I’ve seen this on a few best of lists.
Deadpool and Blind Al goes back in time to the events of Amazing Spider-Man #47, a relatively standard silver age comic in which Kraven interrupted Flash Thompson’s going away party (that same story tied into an untold tale in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1996 as well as the Loeb/ Sale Spider-Man: Blue mini-series.
They accidentally KO Aunt May, so Blind Al has to pretend to be her. Deadpool has an encounter with a vicious nun, but wants to take advantage of being in an earlier era, by getting with celebrities before they were famous and developed higher standards. To keep his identity secret, he has to pretend to be Peter Parker. And if you think this is a recipe for comedy, you’re right. In terms of number of laughs and joke density, this is one of the funniest Spider-Man comics ever.
It was a bit weird reading some Venom mini-series a few days ago, given the efforts to make a bad guy palpable to readers without hurting Marvel’s overall brand. Deadpool’s crazier. At this point, he was pretty much a bad guy with a monthly title. He’s years away from taking redemption seriously, which is an interesting dynamic.

Deadpool was McGuinness’ breakout project, and this issue really shows his skills, with sequences in the present done in his standard cartoony style, while sequences set in the past are drawn in a style that fits John Romita Sr. The jokes are much more risque than we’re used to in the Spider-Man comics, which kinda fits my argument that part of the backlash to One More Day was that some fans expected tamer material. That said, keeping the G-rated Stan Lee stuff is a reminder that his gags were pretty solid.
A+ (So far this is the top Spider-Man comic I've read as part of this era.)

Comics have made me laugh out loud before (rarely!) but Deadpool #11 is the only one that sent me into fits. Like it was so funny I couldn’t read it in public or people would stare at me like I was nuts. Still the funniest comic (by far) I’ve ever read.

[ARkadelphia]

Amazing Spider-Man #429
This story is set within 24 hours of Spider-Man attacking Norman Osborn in Spectacular #250. The public is scared of Spidey (which makes for a decent encounter with hoods on Page 3) and former enemies see it as an opportunity to strike.
Absorbing Man and Titania pretend to be new superheroes to be like the Thunderbolts, unaware that this makes them more like the new superheroes than they figured. (Weirdly I’m covering the Thunderbolts in a reread of Heroes Return-era Avengers titles, so this does connect to another reading project.)
Norman Osborn takes advantage of the mess. Daredevil pops by, which makes sense for a variety of reasons. The Absorbing Man/ Titania dynamic is one DeFalco has explored before, and it’s a solid excuse for a single issue team-up here. I don’t care for the scenes where MJ’s upset because I don't buy that this situation is so unusual, but I do like Robbie standing up to Jonah. Bennet’s art is decent. He’s been a bit of a mixed bag in this era, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there were explanations for the inconsistency, but his work in this issue is on the level of someone asked to draw Amazing Spider-Man.
B+



Deadpool #11
This was not made by the Spider-Man office, but it does have a big impact. Writer Joe Kelly and Artist Ed McGuinness have had multiple subsequent runs on Spidey, and I’ve seen this on a few best of lists.
Deadpool and Blind Al goes back in time to the events of Amazing Spider-Man #47, a relatively standard silver age comic in which Kraven interrupted Flash Thompson’s going away party (that same story tied into an untold tale in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1996 as well as the Loeb/ Sale Spider-Man: Blue mini-series.
They accidentally KO Aunt May, so Blind Al has to pretend to be her. Deadpool has an encounter with a vicious nun, but wants to take advantage of being in an earlier era, by getting with celebrities before they were famous and developed higher standards. To keep his identity secret, he has to pretend to be Peter Parker. And if you think this is a recipe for comedy, you’re right. In terms of number of laughs and joke density, this is one of the funniest Spider-Man comics ever.
It was a bit weird reading some Venom mini-series a few days ago, given the efforts to make a bad guy palpable to readers without hurting Marvel’s overall brand. Deadpool’s crazier. At this point, he was pretty much a bad guy with a monthly title. He’s years away from taking redemption seriously, which is an interesting dynamic.

Deadpool was McGuinness’ breakout project, and this issue really shows his skills, with sequences in the present done in his standard cartoony style, while sequences set in the past are drawn in a style that fits John Romita Sr. The jokes are much more risque than we’re used to in the Spider-Man comics, which kinda fits my argument that part of the backlash to One More Day was that some fans expected tamer material. That said, keeping the G-rated Stan Lee stuff is a reminder that his gags were pretty solid.
A+ (So far this is the top Spider-Man comic I've read as part of this era.)

WTF is May doing without a porch light? Forest ahills is a decent section of Queens, but it’s dangerous at night, especially in the Marvel Universe.

[exile001]

With Amazing Spider-Man #429, its interesting that we get a shot of Ock with Lady Ock reacting to the news about Spidey attacking Norman.

It feels like the writer keeping a plate spinning for them, to keep them in the audience's mind, for when they properly come back later (which doesn't happen). I wonder if he had a plan or just liked dropping them in?

It does flavour the world having reactions from a variety of characters.

I also liked that Ock is eating a Pop Tart. It's an unnecessary thing, but again helps to make it feel more real. Ock reads the news while eating breakfast, as real people do (or did at the time).

I always find it funny when an artist draws in the women's nipples under the costume but not men's. It's the same material. I guess we're lucky Norman's hand is where it is. Lol.

[HypnoHustler]

This thread is making me nostalgic about an era I never gave much thought to. It’s a shame a lot of it is hard to find nowadays. Only Spiderhunt/Identity Crisis is collected in TPB as far as I know.

[exile001]

This thread is making me nostalgic about an era I never gave much thought to. It’s a shame a lot of it is hard to find nowadays. Only Spiderhunt/Identity Crisis is collected in TPB as far as I know.

Hobgoblin Lives was collected along with the Goblin at the Gate three-parter but not a lot of the rest, sadly.

At least they collected Gathering of Five, right? Lol.