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  1. #76
    Wig Over The Hoodie Style IamnotJudasTraveller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTait View Post
    The Scrier thing did become a massive mess, but I believe that the entity that the Silver Surfer fought was actually Scrier himself.
    Yeah, that's correct. DeMatteis wanted to use the character, so in the Spider-Man books they did say the cult was based in a figure that "was said to exist" to allow him to use the actual Scrier. The actual Scrier also interacted with Spider-Man in an annual years down the road, written by DeMatteis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daibhidh View Post
    If May were alive Norman wouldn't have told Gargan.
    I'd think most people would also say Norman wouldn't have told Gargan about Peter's ID, either - and there's the metacontext to consider, where, even if Norman was routinely making Peter's life hell at this point, such as putting Flash Thompson in a coma, brainwashing Peter with evil toothpaste, and occasionally retroactively boning Gwen Stacy and having superpowered, fast aged twins in Europe with her, it was pretty much taboo to go near one of his biggest wins on his sworn enemy (as well as a litany of other Clone Saga stuff anyway). That just feels like someone putting it in text what actually transpired (much as I wish that wasn't it), given how much time had elapsed and absolutely none of the powers that be ever wanted to go near that particular point again.
    Discovering/CONFESSING! the nature of evil... one retcon at a time.

  2. #77
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    I was also a fan of Mad Jack... not so much a fan of the later reveal of them being Mysterios cousin. Wouldn't mind seeing a Mad Jack version return, only with the outfit worn by Jack O' Lantern in the Remender Venom series.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-spider View Post
    I was also a fan of Mad Jack... not so much a fan of the later reveal of them being Mysterios cousin. Wouldn't mind seeing a Mad Jack version return, only with the outfit worn by Jack O' Lantern in the Remender Venom series.
    Oooh yeah, thatís a good design
    1312

  4. #79
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    You gotta remember, that stuff was popular at the time. People loved it. It's only natural others would want a slice of it or to gravitate towards that style. I also remember Ghost Rider and Dr. Strange comics of that era played around with the same basic kinds of setups.
    Howard Mackie, the main Spider-Man writer at this time, did get his start on Ghost Rider.

    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    There were other mysteriously dropped threads from the Clone Saga. To me the two most annoying ones (and I don’t have pics handy, sorry) was (a) the Jackal tattoo on the assassin who shot Jill Stacy at the Forest Hills home, and (b) definitely the most annoying, Kaine beating up (and scarring!) all those Scriers to get back Baby May in Europe… and then it’s hand waved away in a throwaway line of dialogue as him “being dealt with”… an egregious example of either editorial interference or hotshot John Byrne coming aboard at this time and throwing his weight around (“what? Who’s Kaine?? Get rid of that! And the baby! Readers want the Aunt back!!”).
    This is a definite issue in this era.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Amazing Spider-Man #426-428
    The Rose has teamed up with the Hand to resurrect Doctor Octopus, by transferring Spider-Man’s life energy into his body. This plan also gets the attention of Ock’s proteges Carolyn Trainer and Stunner, who is willing to take a big risk to bring back her beloved Otto.
    This might just be my favorite story so far of this era. The fight scenes are just great. I think if Steve Skroce had a longer stint on the series he’d mentioned as one of the top Spider-Man artists like Marcos Martin or Sara Pichelli. He is on that level, and this might be his peak. He’s a good fit for Defalco’s dense writing style, with a balance between Spidey’s quips and all the craziness in the fight scenes. There’s also just a good sense of Peter’s voice and mannerisms, that make him feel more real than any of the other Spider-Man comics of the time, outside of DeMatteis.

    I do have some minor quibbles. There seems to be a connection between someone in MJ’s social circle and someone in the gang war, which is just one of those coincidences that’s a major pet peeve of mine. Deliah’s method of talking (the unconventional lettering) is distinctive, but so annoying. We do have the infamous reveal that Alison Morgaine has been taking care of a cat in a crib after some earlier misdirections. Not every joke lands, though I can pin that one on Spidey being distracted in a life and death situation.
    The story itself is pretty decent. Otto has a decent arc, and there is a price to his return that is dramatically satisfying. Peter has some moments where he pushes himself to the limit, and it's not derivative of the usual iconic moments. Rescued bystanders aren't always grateful. MJ has some good moments in grad school, trying to consider an identity independent of Peter, while also getting him out of his shell, which is the type of story that works well for a married Spider-Man.
    A

    Last edited by Mister Mets; 09-30-2023 at 07:48 AM.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  6. #81
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    AhÖ our first big disagreement. I kinda disliked this story, maybe because Iíve always found resurrections by the Hand to be cheap and unimaginative (whether itís Elektra or Doc Ock). Additionally, the ninjas were written in a very stereotypical way, all of Doc Ockís character development from when he had saved Peterís life in ĎWeb of Deathí was undone with his return, and I just found the dialogue and plot to be unremarkable in general. I did like seeing Stunner again (and the plot twist about her real body), and I remember this had a great JRJr gatefold cover with Doc Ock rising from the grave. But overall, I wasnít a fan. I much preferred the Electro arc that came right before it. This wasnít a bad story, but just something aggressively average that Iíve never felt the need to revisit.

  7. #82
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    Thinking about Judas, and my own headcanon here... instead of bringing him back in X-Men, would've been interesting if he could've somehow wormed his way into being the head man of Ravencroft. He always wanted to study the nature of good and evil, there ya go. Doesn't have to be super powerful, more a guy who uses psychological tricks to cause havoc somehow.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-spider View Post
    Thinking about Judas, and my own headcanon here... instead of bringing him back in X-Men, would've been interesting if he could've somehow wormed his way into being the head man of Ravencroft. He always wanted to study the nature of good and evil, there ya go. Doesn't have to be super powerful, more a guy who uses psychological tricks to cause havoc somehow.
    I dunno. I know it's comic books and Norman Osborn was allowed to become director of SHIELD while Kingpin of Crime was elected Mayor of New York. But still... in Traveller's first appearance, he literally freed every inmate at Ravencroft. How would he pass any hiring committee to be the new warden or director there?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    I dunno. I know it's comic books and Norman Osborn was allowed to become director of SHIELD while Kingpin of Crime was elected Mayor of New York. But still... in Traveller's first appearance, he literally freed every inmate at Ravencroft. How would he pass any hiring committee to be the new warden or director there?
    ... Hmm, if it were during the Fall of X era, Orchis puts him there? I dunno, there are workarounds.... and hey, just say the 'nervous breakdown' he had when he triggered his powers affected his mind at the time, but now he's in complete control of his mental facilities.

  10. #85
    Spectacular Member JTait's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I think if Steve Skroce had a longer stint on the series he’d mentioned as one of the top Spider-Man artists like Marcos Martin or Sara Pichelli. He is on that level, and this might be his peak.
    Agree with all of this. He is a seriously underrated artist.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    I dunno. I know it's comic books and Norman Osborn was allowed to become director of SHIELD while Kingpin of Crime was elected Mayor of New York. But still... in Traveller's first appearance, he literally freed every inmate at Ravencroft. How would he pass any hiring committee to be the new warden or director there?
    At the end of Power and Responsibility, Kafka states that she got a letter from Traveller stating that he wasn’t able to show up as planned. They assumed that the guy who attacked Ravencroft wasn’t the real Traveller based on that letter.

    Granted, he then went and attacked Ravencroft again during The Trial of Peter Parker but he did say he was striking that from their memory as well.

  12. #87
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    I think it is a general consensus at this rate that Byrne ruined Spider Man the same way he ruined the X-Men line and Superman altogether.
    It is insane how the big 3 and the smaller ones kept hiring him to write comics at all, him and Jeff Loeb.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitterman View Post
    I think it is a general consensus at this rate that Byrne ruined Spider Man the same way he ruined the X-Men line and Superman altogether.
    It is insane how the big 3 and the smaller ones kept hiring him to write comics at all, him and Jeff Loeb.
    I don’t know about all that. I know his 80s run on FF is supposed to be iconic though. The problem with Byrne is he majorly fell off in the 90s and his massive ego no longer matched his talent. He also had very little understanding of Spidey and was disrespectful to its readers and even his fellow creators on it.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    He also had very little understanding of Spidey and was disrespectful to its readers and even his fellow creators on it.
    To this day I have a hard time understanding why did anyone think it was okay to write Peter Parker and homeless and sleeping in a gutter? It just seemed so out of character.

  15. #90
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Kids in the Hall reference! That's a solid 10 on the "how 90's is this" scale.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

    "I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"

    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

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