Spider-Man: Lotus (fan film released)

[Yvonmukluk]

I thought Watts' work wasn't great either. But Watts promoted what he was doing. Did you think he was going to rebuke him publicly? That's one of the problems in Hollywood and comics. People no longer feel comfortable being honest about other people's work if they're kind to them IRL. Not knowing someone allows complete honesty. And someone can be the nicest person in the world but do shoddy work. And it's crummy that someone would leak private messages. I cannot think of any people who would be totally fine with their private messages getting leaked. And whatever you think of the movie, you have to admit that it understood Spider-Man better than the MCU.

No you do not have to hand it to the racist, pedophile-enabling, treated it’s VFX team terribly movie.

Even if you can somehow excuse all of that, it’s still cargo-culting The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man. It’s Peter Parker is willing to trauma dump on a dying child, and even in the time before Gwen’s death Peter’s friend group apparently all hate each other. I still think the MCU gets the essence of Peter even though it’s a departure from the comics. That’s the nature of adaptations.

You can dislike the MCU all you want, you’re entitled to your opinion but you don’t need to make excuses for this tire fire.

[KurtW95]

racist, pedophile-enabling

Still no proof of any of these.

[Yvonmukluk]

Still no proof of any of these.

I mean given Wayne and Konop both at least acknowledged the DMs with the racism were real enough to make half-hearted apologies for it (and Salandria straight up tried to defend it and wound up digging himself deeper while Powell in response to the controversy and Konop's handling of it disavowed the production), are you at least willing to accept that as proof of the racism allegations?


And like I said, even if you do theoretically put that aside, Lotus is just a crappy movie. What is the artistic justification for the extremely long establishing shots that don't even establish specific parts of the city, again?

[Matt14teg]

When you're going around bashing Directors that boosted attention to your fan film while smiling in their faces and bashing them in DMs behind their back and bragging how you can make better movies than them. People are gonna watch your stuff with a more watchful eye. The movie was what he considered him 'sticking it to' the Hollywood that thinks they know how to make a Spider-Man film, and it fell flat on it. Don't point at the stands and hit a single, and worse, don't point at the stands and hit a line drive and get thrown out at first base.

Had he not had such an ego nor been so arrogant, people would be looking at it with a less critical eye. Instead of seeing it as "A great first attempt from a young director whom has the potential to go forward and do great things." it is seen as "The ego project from a guy that bragged he knew better than the Writers and Directors that made the films and instead proved he was nowhere near them."

All that said, if he continues to pursue Directing, this isn't going to effect his career in the slightest. As people will already excuse what he's done and 5 years from now they'll act like this is all old hat and give him a "second and third and fourth" chance. He'll have the benefit of being allowed to screw up multiple times before it actually has a chance at ending his career.

Really tbh not saying his career is broken but idk if you can garner people willing to fund a project with this much baggage.

[KurtW95]

And they were apologizing about their old high school messages. Kids make stupid comments all the time. Would you be willing to make all of your messages from high school public? People change. You can judge the move separately, but I have my doubts that many people are. Do you think Justin Bieber ought to lose his career because of the racist jokes he told in high school? Do you think RDJ should've never been cast as Iron Man or the movie should've been bashed because of his drug-induced trespassing? Or to get into more serious matters, do you think Mark Wahlberg shouldn't have been given the chance to change after he actually committed racially motivated and violent attacks as a teenager? Should Jay-Z have never had a career because he shot his brother in the shoulder when he was 12?

[Yvonmukluk]

And they were apologizing about their old high school messages. Kids make stupid comments all the time. Would you be willing to make all of your messages from high school public? People change. You can judge the move separately, but I have my doubts that many people are. Do you think Justin Bieber ought to lose his career because of the racist jokes he told in high school? Do you think RDJ should've never been cast as Iron Man or the movie should've been bashed because of his drug-induced trespassing? Or to get into more serious matters, do you think Mark Wahlberg shouldn't have been given the chance to change after he actually committed racially motivated and violent attacks as a teenager? Should Jay-Z have never had a career because he shot his brother in the shoulder when he was 12?

I mean given people who actually worked on the movie disavowed it because of their racism (and again because these messages were only a few years old and some date from when they were still working on the movie), I am willing to say no, I’m not going to forgive them that easily.

Also I did straight up link a comprehensive review disregards all the behind the scenes stuff in the name of objectivity, and still reaches the conclusion it’s a crap film motivated solely by spite towards the MCU for deviating from the ‘canon’. I’m curious on your thoughts on that.

[Majesty]

No you do not have to hand it to the racist, pedophile-enabling, treated it’s VFX team terribly movie.

Even if you can somehow excuse all of that, it’s still cargo-culting The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man. It’s Peter Parker is willing to trauma dump on a dying child, and even in the time before Gwen’s death Peter’s friend group apparently all hate each other. I still think the MCU gets the essence of Peter even though it’s a departure from the comics. That’s the nature of adaptations.

You can dislike the MCU all you want, you’re entitled to your opinion but you don’t need to make excuses for this tire fire.

I'm wondering why the heck Kurt feels so inclined to defend all this.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

One of the reviews inspired me to watch cake day from corridor crew, it's a fun short flick that gave Fancy Dan more personality than anyone else has done.

It covers the Parker luck without being angsty and edgy, better than this film and more fun than Homecoming

[KurtW95]

I mean given people who actually worked on the movie disavowed it because of their racism

A lot of the cast of The Flash did that with Ralph actor and it was complete nonsense.

I'm wondering why the heck Kurt feels so inclined to defend all this.

Because I don't think that people should have their lives destroyed based on what they say in high school and I've seen firsthand how people can change.

[ironman2978]

Yeah…that movie was …bad.

This guy hated FFH and wanted to outdo other Comic Ytbers/Twitter so much he made Spider-Man Lotus, a film that seems to take Spidey Twitter's insistence that Peter has to be a depressed sad sack loner 100% to heart & made a whole terrible movie about that?

Even putting aside every controversy behind the scene (which honestly made it harder to root for the film and honestly I would never in good conscience defend or support), a lot of this film comes off as wooden, and just poor. Even interacting with Gavin on twitter, he feels like a narcissistic filmmaker with a fake humble personality, and knowing the type, it’s hard to feel sympathetic or empathetic to all the backlash he rightfully deserved. Yes people have the right to grow and change, but at the same time, nothing about this feels like he wanted to do either. (And I will never forgive or appreciate someone who makes racist or create uncomfortable work spaces in spaces like the film industry. Speaking from experience, I would never want to work or be around energy like that, that’s toxic behavior…people’s lives can be hurt or ruined by “stupid comments” and that isn’t something I take lightly and have seen people blacklisted for similar behavior).

That being said, after given the film a chance, Lotus is like a Spider-man movie made by a "fan" who constantly thinks he gets the character better than everyone but doesn't actually understand it. Even if you call it a character study, it doesn’t do a good job at it. And No, it didn’t do a better job at understanding or depicting the character better than the MCU or Marc Web’s take for that matter.

Spider-Man Lotus takes elements from the Kid Who Collects Spider-Man , Spider-Man Blue and The Night Gwen Stacy died and took all the wrong lessons from it. Instead of making it about Peter comforting a child with terminal cancer and giving it proper build up, Gavin has Spider-Man trauma dump on said child with cancer the whole movie. It’s like Gavin tried to put the storyline in but didn’t understand the meaning or impact of it all. Same with scenes of Peter dealing with Gwen’s death. When Peter lashes out at MJ, it was because he was feeling the immediate aftermath of Gwen’s death and it ends with MJ choosing to stay to comfort Gwen. Lotus however has a 3 minute, almost incel like rant (and this scene takes place weeks after Gwen’s death). It’s hard to root or sympathize with a character when there’s nothing worth rooting or sympathizing about. Honestly even the relationship between Peter and Gwen falls flat on every level.


The lack of action isn’t an issue. It’s the quality of the action present. It wasn’t creative, it was poorly written and shot. And visually…. Visually it was lackluster. Even the best shots weren’t visually interesting because of skillful camerawork, but because of already good visuals (sunsets, pretty views etc). The rest of it is absolutely dreadful. Shots that aren’t implemented correctly or hang on for too long, poor lighting choices, etc.

Spider-Man: Lotus is a masterclass...... in everything to *not do* as a first-time filmmaker. LITERALLY EVERYTHING. Especially compared to other fan films like Green Goblin’s Last Stand or Cake Day.


Normally, I wouldn't be so mean about a young first-timer like this, especially being a filmmaker myself. But this movie needs to be studied and used to keep egos and delusions of grandeur in check. I think working on a small film or other projects and learning could have helped…as opposed to whatever this is.

[KurtW95]

I don't know how you could make the case that those other fan films are better unless you played them all with your eyes closed. I like the Corridor guys too, but come on.

[Spidey_62]

Green Goblin's Last Stand is easily better than this, one has a lot more money and production value but that does not automatically make for the better time. More creative camerawork and filmmaking tricks in GGLS sell what's happening, not to mention the ballsy stuntwork and in-camera practical effects. That to me is just meat and potatoes filmmaking and it's shot on an early '90s consumer grade video camera, going to show it's not what you got it's what you can do with it. There's a few shots that aren't lit great in it but most are lit and excitingly framed as opposed to this where almost every shot is chest-up or closeup and so darkly flat lol. Not to mention this film being a slog, it's big choice is to linger in the misery and leave it at that for 2 long hours while it tries to study characters it just expects you to already care about. I don't enjoy pitting them against each other but GGLS plays the emotions much more closer to the actual book and is much more enjoyable for that in its breeziness, it gets to the point and feels authentic because that's pretty much literally what it was in the books.

[KurtW95]

Green Goblin's Last Stand is easily better than this, one has a lot more money and production value but that does not automatically make for the better time. More creative camerawork and filmmaking tricks in GGLS sell what's happening, not to mention the ballsy stuntwork and in-camera practical effects. That to me is just meat and potatoes filmmaking and it's shot on an early '90s consumer grade video camera, going to show it's not what you got it's what you can do with it. There's a few shots that aren't lit great in it but most are lit and excitingly framed as opposed to this where almost every shot is chest-up or closeup and so darkly flat lol. Not to mention this film being a slog, it's big choice is to linger in the misery and leave it at that for 2 long hours while it tries to study characters it just expects you to already care about. I don't enjoy pitting them against each other but GGLS plays the emotions much more closer to the actual book and is much more enjoyable for that in its breeziness, it gets to the point and feels authentic because that's pretty much literally what it was in the books.

Production value is kind of an important component. Not say a film is better if it has more money. But there is a bare minimum.

spidermanfanfilmcompare.jpg

[Spidey_62]

Production value is kind of an important component. Not say a film is better if it has more money. But there is a bare minimum.

spidermanfanfilmcompare.jpg

One of the few shots by the VFX team who did a great job, 95% of the movie doesn't look like that lol. You can tell the shots which were completed by the VFX team vs. the shots that were later completed after they left. The people who made the suit for Lotus did a great job, they were let down also because most of the time the suit is shot it doesn't look as good on screen as their work should.

Personally love the Spidey suit Dan Poole's mom helped him make, it's pure homemade Spidey goodness.

[Majesty]

Production value is kind of an important component. Not say a film is better if it has more money. But there is a bare minimum.

spidermanfanfilmcompare.jpg

"But the effects were decent" doesn't make it a better fan film. Just a more expensive one.