Thoughts On How To Save Comics

[ed2962]

You can't sustain a product on a dying media like print. They have to update their product for the time. According to Newswire, WebToons gets 100B views a year so the readers are out there.

People have been saying this for years. But again, I think DC/Marvel has been slow to go big into digital is because the LCS gives them guaranteed sales.

[Mister Mets]

You can't sustain a product on a dying media like print. They have to update their product for the time. According to Newswire, WebToons gets 100B views a year so the readers are out there.

Marvel and DC would lose money if they shifted exclusively to digital.

You're missing the point; GOT, and even a much more child-friendly show like Avatar: The Last Airbender, are single story arcs that vastly outsize the majority of comic arcs, and thus are both examples of how much more other epics demand detailed, in-the-now information to be picked up by audience members to get what's happening than any single comic arc does, and that most people are attracted to escapism by the spectacle and "fun" or "grit" first and foremost and then can *easily* pick up enough info to keep going.

No modern first time audience has even been run off a book by the Robin appearing in that story being #3 or #5, or even by oblique references to past events; what matters is what the current arc is dealing with, and when an audience member's view grows beyond that, it usually end sup either being enthusiasm for lore or harmless apathy since they just want the next story.

It's easy for someone to catch up on a TV show, especially with digital media.

I haven't seen Succession, but I know I can start watching Episode One on Max.

Some comic book series are like that.

Others are not, especially with the shared universe.

And there's all sorts of weirdness with figuring out good jump-on points.

Some Marvel/ DC comics are well-written so they can be appreciated without an intense knowledge of the backstory. But if you're looking at something like Hickman's Avengers or Fantastic Four, it works best from the beginning. With those titles, readers will have to pick up at least two books to understand what's going on.

It's often more convoluted. To read the Spider-Man clone saga in the 90s, you had to follow four monthly books which would often reference obscure continuity.

Marvel and DC could do more to help new fans get a foothold.

I do disagree with the idea that no modern reader has been put off by being confused about a comic book they read.

Online comics fans communities will have a lot of survivor bias. These are the readers who were able to navigate a complicated system, but it doesn't mean that everybody is.

That said, there have been times when I was put off by a new title because it was too convoluted, or I didn't get the frames of reference.

On the other hand, there have been times when I didn't check out a series/ run because the opening was bland, even if it was accessible.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Marvel and DC would lose money if they shifted exclusively to digital.

Maybe, maybe not. Webtoon makes $100m per month. Marvel and DC just needs to catch up with whats popular with comic book fans.

[Mister Mets]

Maybe, maybe not. Webtoon makes $100m per month. Marvel and DC just needs to catch up with whats popular with comic book fans.

Most of Webtoon's revenue is outside the US. Granted, $19,000,000 a month from the American market (based on the assumption that Americans are at least as valuable from a revenue perspective as readers in the rest of the world) would still be rather impressive.

That said, online companies have had a history of inflating revenue, so there is a potential problem if Marvel and DC start trying to copy something with opaque finances.

Some media companies lost fortunes when Facebook encouraged them to pivot to video, based on customer models that turned out to be BS.

https://www.niemanlab.org/2021/09/we...cebook-coffin/

Marvel would also still lose money if they abandon print. They don't need to abandon one revenue stream completely in order to expand another.

[achilles]

They can't be saved, they have to be taken out behind the barn and put down. It's the only humane thing to do at this point.

[TheKryptonMan]

They can't be saved, they have to be taken out behind the barn and put down. It's the only humane thing to do at this point.

I certainly think that comics can't be saved , when it's $4.99 plus tax for about 20 pages of story .
That's what ASM will be very soon. Marvel has increased it by $1 more . Why can't they just increase like 25 cents ?
I don't mind paying a little more , but give me extra content .
I know that ASM sells well , like Batman . At least with Batman they're giving you more pages .

[Username taken]

The US superhero industry will always exist in some form. It's not going anywhere any time soon.

We've been hearing that superhero comics will "die" for well over 20 years now.

I mean, comic sales were increasing and not decreasing in the last few years. I read a number of retailer reports that sales have declined post pandemic but with the Marvel and DC breaking off from Diamond, sales figures are a lot more opaque than ever.

[Username taken]

As for how to boost sales, the entire model of superhero comics as we know them has to change.

1. Comics are too expensive. With so many forms of competing entertainment, it's not really worth jumping in. Superhero comics are completely out of step with other forms of published entertainment in terms of cost. Seriously, a tankobon manga volume is hundreds of pages and only costs $12.99 before tax in Canada. A lot of novels with hundreds of pages are cheaper than a single Marvel or DC title. Comics are now premium entertainment and no longer a casual hobby. Either a different format should be adopted or prices are somehow reduced.

2. Mutiple titles and multiple creators on a single property. With something like manga, it's generally the work of a single author and not multiple writers sometimes spread out over different books. A book like One Piece is Oda's story and it's a singular story about the Straw Hat Pirates. Compare this to something like X-men where you have to read multiple books to understand the overarching plot. Even hard-core fans struggle to keep with events in some books. Less crossovers is a good idea.

3. The endless stories of superhero comics are reaching breaking point .I dont think theres any other form of entertainment that have told a largely unbroken story with particular characters for decades now like superhero comics. One of the attractions of something like manga are the finite stories. Massive sellers like Attack on Titan and Demon Slayer told their stories and ended. Superhero comics are in a perpetual loop and some characters appear to have simply run out of original storylines. This is controversial but it's true and I don't know how to address that.

4. Content. The highest selling manga of 2023 is Blue Lock, a soccer manga. The folks reading Blue Lock in all likelihood have no interest in superheroes. Unlike my generation, my kids have zero interest in superheroes beyond what they see in movies. However, they are absolutely crazy for manga and anime. Marvel and DC actually had a more diverse line-up way back in the day but eventually they went all in on superheroes and abandoned any other types of stories. If comics are to expand readership, they have to bring out different kinds of stories.

5. Lastly, distribution. The reliance on the direct market is one of the biggest problems with superhero comics today. I can bet that most of us didn't get into comics via the direct market but from newsstands. Manga on other hand is sold everywhere and in book stores too. The direct market IMO is one of the biggest problems with superhero comics. The publishers have to find a way to sell their comics outside of the direct market.

[Bryan]

I stopped buying new comics years ago, with inflated cover prices being the number one reason. I also grew tired of the constant multi-story arcs and cross-over events. Comics were fun when I was a kid reading them in the 70's and 80's, soooo nice to pick up a single issue and not have to track down 15-20 other titles to complete a story! The occasional cross-over or continued story was fine because it wasn't over-kill like today! Comics today are mainly geared towards collector's/speculator's and that is pretty sad! Also, most comics are too adult themed for younger kids to enjoy. These constant reboots and renumbering of titles are not attracting new readers, NOT fixing the problem...we need to get the cover price down to $1.99, tell more stand-alone stories, limit number of titles per character/team, stop already with these big events, I mean how many more DC CRISIS titles do we need??

[Mister Mets]

The US superhero industry will always exist in some form. It's not going anywhere any time soon.

We've been hearing that superhero comics will "die" for well over 20 years now.

I mean, comic sales were increasing and not decreasing in the last few years. I read a number of retailer reports that sales have declined post pandemic but with the Marvel and DC breaking off from Diamond, sales figures are a lot more opaque than ever.

Fair point.

It seems difficult to imagine that there won't be at least a thousand pages of superhero comic books made in the United States/ anglosphere in August 2043. It'll be different, but it will still exist.

As for how to boost sales, the entire model of superhero comics as we know them has to change.

1. Comics are too expensive. With so many forms of competing entertainment, it's not really worth jumping in. Superhero comics are completely out of step with other forms of published entertainment in terms of cost. Seriously, a tankobon manga volume is hundreds of pages and only costs $12.99 before tax in Canada. A lot of novels with hundreds of pages are cheaper than a single Marvel or DC title. Comics are now premium entertainment and no longer a casual hobby. Either a different format should be adopted or prices are somehow reduced.

2. Mutiple titles and multiple creators on a single property. With something like manga, it's generally the work of a single author and not multiple writers sometimes spread out over different books. A book like One Piece is Oda's story and it's a singular story about the Straw Hat Pirates. Compare this to something like X-men where you have to read multiple books to understand the overarching plot. Even hard-core fans struggle to keep with events in some books. Less crossovers is a good idea.

3. The endless stories of superhero comics are reaching breaking point .I dont think theres any other form of entertainment that have told a largely unbroken story with particular characters for decades now like superhero comics. One of the attractions of something like manga are the finite stories. Massive sellers like Attack on Titan and Demon Slayer told their stories and ended. Superhero comics are in a perpetual loop and some characters appear to have simply run out of original storylines. This is controversial but it's true and I don't know how to address that.

4. Content. The highest selling manga of 2023 is Blue Lock, a soccer manga. The folks reading Blue Lock in all likelihood have no interest in superheroes. Unlike my generation, my kids have zero interest in superheroes beyond what they see in movies. However, they are absolutely crazy for manga and anime. Marvel and DC actually had a more diverse line-up way back in the day but eventually they went all in on superheroes and abandoned any other types of stories. If comics are to expand readership, they have to bring out different kinds of stories.

5. Lastly, distribution. The reliance on the direct market is one of the biggest problems with superhero comics today. I can bet that most of us didn't get into comics via the direct market but from newsstands. Manga on other hand is sold everywhere and in book stores too. The direct market IMO is one of the biggest problems with superhero comics. The publishers have to find a way to sell their comics outside of the direct market.

Interesting points.

1. There are expensive ways to enjoy manga, and some cheaper ways to enjoy comics. Digital subscriptions and sales are quite affordable.

2. I don't think you can have only one creative team on a brand. They're not even trying that with movies, with different series about Spider-Man and Batman.

3. The problem is that if you end the shared universe, it could be like killing the golden goose. There are some strategies, but the risk is that you're going to break something that's been iconic for decades.

4. This is a chicken and egg question. Other content is made, and if it sells, it can attract similar projects.

5. Many of us may have got into comics through the direct market. Given the societal problems of a lack of third spaces (outside of the house or work/ school) to hang out, there's a great value in traditional comic book stores.

[ed2962]

I saw this in Target. It's not bad for what it is. It seems to be a basic overall introduction to comics and comics history for people who just know them from the movies. Thing is, my Target doesn't have that many American comics. There's some manga and few YA style out of continuity versions of a couple Marvel/DC characters, but it's not like you can get the latest X-Men or Flash trades.

[skyvolt2000]

If Marvel or DC rip off stores by tricking them into buying something readers don't want, the stores will figure it out quickly enough.

No they don't Mets.

Not when it comes to certain titles.

Go look in those back issues and bins and not just in comic stores but Half Price books and comic cons. In fact look at Midtown Comics.
How many of those top DC and Marvel titles PACK those bins?
I have seen a table bulk and BREAK over having boxes PACKED with Batman only titles.

How many times have we ALL went to a comic book store and saw EVERY single printings of a DC or Marvel book???
I saw all 7 printings of Star Wars #1 in a store. I can't say that for Stray Dogs. Heck I couldn't say that for Moon Girl or Ms Marvel (and that was BEFORE their tv shows).

Marvel nor DC are tricking folks. That is on store owners who won't stop over ordering certain books. Thinking someone will buy them at that cover or marked up price. However as Midtown Comic is showing folks are waiting for SALES.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

To throw in my two cents worth (before inflation), one thing that should be done, especially by Marvel and DC is to drastically pare down the number of titles they produce. I mean, do we need two dozen X-books or a dozen Batbooks (yes, I exaggerated, but, it seems like that) each and every month? I’m a believer is quality over quantity, so paring down the number of books by the Big Two to say, 30 to 40 titles would be a good thing in my opinion, what with better writing and art since available talent isn’t spread so thin.

How about giving younger readers options other than superhero books? I make no apology for being a longtime fan of Archie Comics which cornered the market on humor, there should be room for such comics that would appeal to kids, it’s a pity that genre seems to have vanished. There should be more choices out there for all to enjoy.

[ed2962]

To throw in my two cents worth (before inflation), one thing that should be done, especially by Marvel and DC is to drastically pare down the number of titles they produce. I mean, do we need two dozen X-books or a dozen Batbooks (yes, I exaggerated, but, it seems like that) each and every month? I’m a believer is quality over quantity, so paring down the number of books by the Big Two to say, 30 to 40 titles would be a good thing in my opinion, what with better writing and art since available talent isn’t spread so thin.

How about giving younger readers options other than superhero books? I make no apology for being a longtime fan of Archie Comics which cornered the market on humor, there should be room for such comics that would appeal to kids, it’s a pity that genre seems to have vanished. There should be more choices out there for all to enjoy.

Everything you said makes perfect sense and has been said for years now from both fans and professionals. But Marvel/DC have kinda half assed it. Sure they'll do kid's versions or YA versions of their titles. They'll do the scholastics versions. And I guess those do ok...But what about their mainline? They really seem to want to hedge their bets on getting more money out of a shrinking audience of older collectors. Hence, concentrating on multiple titles of their most popular characters, event comics, renumbering etc. It's not 13-14 yr olds who go to the comic stores every week now ( and if they do they're looking for Magic the Gathering stuff), it's adults with disposable income.

[achilles]

To throw in my two cents worth (before inflation), one thing that should be done, especially by Marvel and DC is to drastically pare down the number of titles they produce. I mean, do we need two dozen X-books or a dozen Batbooks (yes, I exaggerated, but, it seems like that) each and every month? I’m a believer is quality over quantity, so paring down the number of books by the Big Two to say, 30 to 40 titles would be a good thing in my opinion, what with better writing and art since available talent isn’t spread so thin.

How about giving younger readers options other than superhero books? I make no apology for being a longtime fan of Archie Comics which cornered the market on humor, there should be room for such comics that would appeal to kids, it’s a pity that genre seems to have vanished. There should be more choices out there for all to enjoy.

That's one of the attractions of manga, they've got a genre for you.