Characters Who Play Way Out of Their League

[Beadle]

Y’know… just reading something earlier, it got me thinking… there are some characters that really play waaaaaayyyy out of their league, aren’t there?

The example that first got me thinking was Madame Masque. She’s an ex/enemy of Iron Man. Her dad, who she hates, is Nefaria (the guy who lolnopes Mjolnir). She even had a story where Dr Strange and Dr Druid combined to try and stop her but she got away. This is someone probably around Silver Sable level at best, with an ordinary handgun. How is she playing in that company?

Likewise, comics Nebula (at least in the early days). She fought the Avengers multiple times. She slaughtered the Xandarians (y’know, the guys who had the Nova Corps). She also tussled with the Silver Surfer. Her granddaddy was Thanos, and she stole his ship, and later laid claim to the Infinity Gauntlet, while Thanos and Mephisto were dicking around. She infiltrated the Council of Kangs and brought them and the Avengers (who actually folded as a result) down at a time when the CofKs were watching over Galactus absorbing the entire universe (or something… that story arc just before Avengers 300 was a bit confusing, IIRC). She had no business being on that level.

What are other examples you can think of (other than everything Captain America and Batman do. And maybe Ka-Zar - the greatest jobbing aura in history)?

[Sharpandpointies]

Ooo, nice thread. Madam Masque is definitely a head-scratcher.

Okay, let me think of some examples from the stuff I read.

Hey, let's start with Dracula (Marvel Comics). Dracula isn't exactly a lightweight, but based on his demonstrated powers and abilities, he's not exactly in the heavyweight department, either.

He gets in fights with the X-men, tussles straight-up with Colossus based on strength alone and beats him, and so forth.
He fights the Silver Surfer.
He has - not augmented* - a storyline where he gets the better of Classic Strange. Somehow.

Dude has no business taking on Colossus in a strength contest, fighting with the Surfer, and having confrontations with Classic Strange. He should have stuck with being a character in a historical horror comic, rather than throwing down with superheroes. High-end ones, at that.

* he also has a storyline - "end" of vampires, haha, no, they came back and Nobody Anywhere™ was surprised - in Dr. Strange where he's jacked up on the magic of the Darkhold, but at least PART of that storyline is him non-augmented and 'just' normal Dracula, so it's still a bit of a headscratcher.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Is this kinda part of the broad appeal of putting non-meta heroes on the big super teams.

Like, if there's a threat that can give the combined might of Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash and Martian Manhunter trouble, then why the hell is Green Arrow here? But there he is time and time again with his trick arrows, pulling his weight... somehow.

[Beadle]

Is this kinda part of the broad appeal of putting non-meta heroes on the big super teams.

Like, if there's a threat that can give the combined might of Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, The Flash and Martian Manhunter trouble, then why the hell is Green Arrow here? But there he is time and time again with his trick arrows, pulling his weight... somehow.

Possibly. I always reference the first team in the Mighty Avenger era.

Sentry
Wonder Man
Iron Man
Captain Marvel
Ares
Giant-Wasp

… and Black Widow.

I mean Tasha’s cool and all, but she really was there to fetch coffee, right?

[Sharpandpointies]

Possibly. I always reference the first team in the Mighty Avenger era.

Sentry
Wonder Man
Iron Man
Captain Marvel
Ares
Giant-Wasp

… and Black Widow.

I mean Tasha’s cool and all, but she really was there to fetch coffee, right?

Stealth.

Wait, there's Giant-Wasp.

.....

To fight the somewhat-human-level characters on the VILLAIN team?

.....

I mean, we know the actual, very sad reason why she was included on the team (I mean the editorial reason, not in-fiction reason).

[StupidMoniker]

I mean, we know the actual, very sad reason why she was included on the team (I mean the editorial reason, not in-fiction reason).

Given that it was Tony putting the team together, the in-story reason might have been the same as the editorial reason (despite the fact that he said it was because they needed a ninja).

[Sharpandpointies]

Given that it was Tony putting the team together, the in-story reason might have been the same as the editorial reason (despite the fact that he said it was because they needed a ninja).

Okay, valid point. Tony, jeez...

[Alan2099]

Prankster.

I shouldn't even have to explain this one.

Also I want to point out the original Sports Master. Here's a guy that uses (sometimes) modified sports equipment. He fought Green Lantern. Later he joined the Injustice Society, a team that includes Green Lantern AND the Golden Age Spectre.

[Powerboy]

Probably any character who is a street level crimefighter who is also on a team that goes up against cosmic threats and survives due to plot armor.

They even parodied that in a DC comic where some sort of dark Supergirl tells Batman he makes no sense because someone like her should be able to take him out in an instant and the "real" Supergirl says he survives "because he's Batman" which, of course, is a specific example of how not to argue on Rumbles and is the epitomy of P.I.S. and "He survives due to dramatic license/ plot armor." Sounded like a writer was just tired of hearing it.

[Sharkerbob]

Basically as Powerboy said, many teams have street-level heroes hanging with high-level heroes, and its often a stretch how some of them don't die just being on the same battlefield as beings from whom the shockwaves of their punches ought to be leveling buildings.

Part of what I enjoy with the Legion of Superheroes was how even characters with absurd or seemingly weak powers, like, say, turning into a giant ball or being able to eat anything, managed to still pull weight on teams with sometimes up to three Daxamite-tier characters, multiple energy/element manipulators, 12th level intellects, strong psychics, etc. And they make it work, just because of the sheer size of the team and the scale of "geography" they operate at, not to mention living in a Federation-level supertech future helps, they manage to spread out characters to where they are most useful without necessarily having to suspend disbelief.

Of course, then the whole team will, like, battle Mordru or the Time Trapper or an entire invading force of mind-controlled Daxamites, and still survive it, but that's just comics.

[Beadle]

I should have narrowed the thread down to villains. My mistake.

I kinda mentioned I wasn’t aiming for the likes of Cap and Batman (and Classic Black Panther, and Hawkeye, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Ted Kord Blue Beetle, Black Knight, Black Widow etc. etc.), who regularly get involved in stuff they have no business being involved in.

Marvel seems to give a lot of their street-level Avengers names starting with ‘Black’. Weird.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Well, in One Piece we have Buggy the Clown.

Little dude starts out as basically a fun starter villain for the main cast. He has a neat gimmick of being able to divide his body into various pieces and control them, and some dangerous weaponry. And that's pretty much all he has personally throughout the entire series.

The main cast and the villains go on an impressive power creep. They can now split the sky, slice up mountains control the elements, access the powers of mythological beats and knock out entire armies with their sheer force of will.

Buggy has none of that. Buggy has his neat little gimmick ability and his strongest weapon is casually slapped aside by the strongest people in the series. And yet, Buggy persists. Through sheer charisma, expert BS-ing and massive amounts of luck, Buggy the clown has gained infamy and power far beyond his actual abilities. His two current business partners in piraccy beat him up for fun and only keep him around as a scapegoat. But he persists and is in fact still around and playing in the big leagues.

And to his credit, he is aware of his shortcomings but still has grand ambitions.

[K7P5V]

For villains, an All-Time Favorite would be...

Slade VS. JLA







... and since heroes are allowed, my choice would be Thrash VS. Juggernaut

[Captain Smith]

Yeah, the ground level folks are just jokes. The Vulture is my favorite joke as old fart who probably could be eliminated by Farmer Jone with his ol' shotgun.

The only non powered (I include armor as power) viable folks are the 'intelligence' wing - of scientists, computer experts and the like. While we are talking about villians - Batman and Joker are ridiculous - they have to be powered up to be cosmic in super duper chairs, mergers with each other and powered up, etc. Otherwise, someone would just shoot them.

I recall a crime where a car was being broken into. A dude comes down with his hunting bow - Ollie, Ollie! He gets shot dead.

[MichaelC]

The Silver Surfer thing is overstated imo. Surfer was mindcontrolled and not fighting at his peak, basically just shooting a few generic energy blasts like a zombie.

And all Dracula did was unleash his powerset on Surfer and accomplish nothing. He uses his weather-control to sic a hurricane on Surfer and Surfer no-sells it. He uses his beastswarm control to swarm Surfer and Surfer no-sells it. He punches Surfer and Surfer, who only weighs two or three hundred pounds, is sent flying, but isn't knocked out.

So to the surprise of no one, weather-control, beastswarm control, and punching are no big deal to the Silver Surfer, and Dracula can survive a few generic energy blasts from a sluggish, mind-controlled enemy.

In fact, the one power of Dracula's that might have worked, hypnotism, is never used, probably because it was a one-issue story, and him doing that would end with Surfer switching from being mind-controlled by one guy to being mind-controlled by another.