New Ultimate X-men book incoming?

[Jackraow21]

Yeah, they definitely haven’t aged all that well. They were a product of their time for sure. This is why I’m interested to see what Hickman will do in creating a new Ultimate U which is also a product of its time, which is right now.

Remember that a lot of 616 stuff hasn’t aged well either, but because it was the one singular universe for so long it evolved over the decades. In the case of Ultimate, they get the chance to do it over again 20 years later. And that could be highly interesting, so long as it is indeed updated versions of the classic characters and not totally new and unrecognizable versions. If it goes the latter route, it will feel like X-men 2099 or something where I could care less.

[Uncanny X-Man]

Yes, absolutely. The Return to Weapon X arc, which was the second UXM arc running from June-Dec 2001, was a big influence of the second X-men film, X2: X-men United, which came out in May of 2003 a couple of years later. In that Weapon X was still clearly operating on U.S. (and Canadian) soil and was very much an active paramilitary outfit. In the comics, Colonel John Wraith was its leader whereas in the films they went a different, albeit similar, route in taking an older character from the comics and altering him to be the nefarious head of the program (in the films it was Colonel William Stryker instead of John Wraith). And the invasion of the mansion scene was definitely lifted from that Ultimate X-men arc too, along with Nightcrawler as a brainwashed agent/assassin.

The Ultimate line also influenced video games (as you mention) and even the Wolverine and the X-men cartoon a bit, at least in terms of the Phoenix story where, similar to in the Ult X-men comic, the Hellfire Club was kind of a cult obsessed with the big fire bird.

I’m sure there’s other examples, but those are off the top of my head.

You're right, I do see Ultimate's Weapon X being an influence on X2. Actually Millar's very straightforward take on the concept is one of my favourites and one I hope to see adapted and fleshed out again in future reboots.

[Jackraow21]

Same. I actually loved that Weapon X was still in operation in the present day in the Ultimate-verse and was actually a dark offshoot/branch of SHIELD even.

[Grunty]

What are the chances that Nu-ltimate Marrow might last longer than an off-pannel death at the hand of third rate Mister Sinister version?

One of the (several) problems the character has in the mainline comics is the continuity heavy mess of a backstory and introduction, something any alternate continuity could streamline out while retaining her better qualities as a character.

[Wolverine12]

What are the chances that Nu-ltimate Marrow might last longer than an off-pannel death at the hand of third rate Mister Sinister version?

One of the (several) problems the character has in the mainline comics is the continuity heavy mess of a backstory and introduction, something any alternate continuity could streamline out while retaining her better qualities as a character.

It seems unlikely that Marrow would get a lot of page time. It’s an AU book about different versions of 616 characters so I would imagine A/B listers will dominate the books. Although we haven’t really seen many A listers in the first few issues especially when it concerns mutants so I could be completely off base here.

[The Overlord]

Yeah, they definitely haven’t aged all that well. They were a product of their time for sure. This is why I’m interested to see what Hickman will do in creating a new Ultimate U which is also a product of its time, which is right now.

Remember that a lot of 616 stuff hasn’t aged well either, but because it was the one singular universe for so long it evolved over the decades. In the case of Ultimate, they get the chance to do it over again 20 years later. And that could be highly interesting, so long as it is indeed updated versions of the classic characters and not totally new and unrecognizable versions. If it goes the latter route, it will feel like X-men 2099 or something where I could care less.

Sure, but the original Ultimate X-Men screamed 2000s-era edginess that makes it even more dated than the goofy Silver Age stories. People say Ultimate X-Men was ruined after Millar left and Kirkman took over, but I think there are some flaws from the beginning. The problem with the entire Ultimate Universe is that outside of Ultimate Spidey, most of the ''heroes'' were unlikable jerks and most of the villains were monstrous psychopaths, that dynamic gets really boring after a while. That would need to change, with Magneto there is a certainly ''if it ain't broke, don't fix it'' thing with him. Really change the B-list villains, and give them some pathos. Not every villain needs to be a puppy-eating psychopath, you can have some really evil villains, but that shouldn't be all of them. Likewise, making the heroes all one-note jerks gets dull too, it's not realistic to make someone who is just an A-hole and has few qualities beyond that.

[Rift]

Hellion's been on the downlow in the main universe, because they're prepping to push him as the face of the Ultimate X-Men. Think about it: he's catchy, offensive, brutal and gross, but with youth appeal. Everything that the Ultimate line stood for.

[Jackraow21]

Yes, and comics in the 60s and 70s had a lot of casual sexism and racism too that has since been forgotten or whitewashed/glossed over. As well as a lot of campiness.

But I don’t disagree that the OG Ultimate line was especially heavy with late 90s / early 00s edginess, and thus hasn’t aged well. No doubt. My only point is that if that had been the one single Marvel Universe, and/or it just kept going rather than ended, it would have evolved similarly and folks would be happy to ignore some of that stuff just like they ignore the older sins of the 616 Marvel U today.

[Grunty]

It seems unlikely that Marrow would get a lot of page time. It’s an AU book about different versions of 616 characters so I would imagine A/B listers will dominate the books. Although we haven’t really seen many A listers in the first few issues especially when it concerns mutants so I could be completely off base here.

Most Marvel AUs also tend to be designed as brief flashes.
They are either locations that 616 characters visit during their own books, or they are the subject of one-shots and mini-series. Both too briefly visited to get a good look at what the majority of established 616 characters are like.

The Ultimate universe was one of the rare exceptions similar to 2099 and MU2 (the Spider-Girl universe). Running long and wide enough that a large number of even lesser characters could appear (though said appearances weren't always great or even aged poorly like Ultimate Deadpool).

So if the new Ultimate Universe is supposed to become similar in scope and complexity, it stands to reason that just like with animated shows and movies, there could be a chance for lesser characters to get moments to shine or even stand out, thanks to not having the negative reputation or baggage of their 616 counterparts.

Though given the current state of american super hero comic publishing, it seems more likely that the new Ultimate Universe will crumble within 2 or 3 years. Essentialy another brief flash, just a more hyped up one, which won't have enough time to introduce many alternate takes on C-listers.

As for the character mentioned, even being just a regular appearing henchmen would allready be an improvement over her previous Ultimate Universe version.

Yes, and comics in the 60s and 70s had a lot of casual sexism and racism too that has since been forgotten or whitewashed/glossed over. As well as a lot of campiness.

But I don’t disagree that the OG Ultimate line was especially heavy with late 90s / early 00s edginess, and thus hasn’t aged well. No doubt. My only point is that if that had been the one single Marvel Universe, and/or it just kept going rather than ended, it would have evolved similarly and folks would be happy to ignore some of that stuff just like they ignore the older sins of the 616 Marvel U today.

While it can certainly be argued that the problems of the "as was the style at the time" elements at the core of the Ultimate Universe could have been overcome eventualy if it had managed to evolve and update long enough, it also seems to me that it was allready long past the point of this being possible by the time it ended.

[Jackraow21]

Guess we’ll never know. Because it ended. *shrugs*

[D.Z]

Nothing really ages if you surrender to it and accept they were products of their time.


Anyway a new fresh start is good.

[ARkadelphia]

Hellion's been on the downlow in the main universe, because they're prepping to push him as the face of the Ultimate X-Men. Think about it: he's catchy, offensive, brutal and gross, but with youth appeal. Everything that the Ultimate line stood for.

Finally a reasonable place for him to appear and run wild

[From The Shadows]

I loved the early Ultimate X-Men and loved their Nightcrawler. Hated what they did with him later, though.

[Wolverine12]

I feel like it's time to re-read Ultimate X-Men, I used to read it annually but it's been awhile since I've done that. As for how the series aged I think there are definitely a few defining moments that didn't age well but overall I think a lot of nuance in the stories is being over looked. Originally, Magneto was a sympathetic character, the UU used the base of his development in 616 as a holocaust survivor who was just trying to protect his people, he even had his own Genosha that was a haven for all mutants, he didn't really turn into a mustache twirling villain until Loeb wrote him. Wolverine was the most fleshed out character in the whole Ultimate X-Men line and his arc from Magneto's assassin to X-Men stalwart was done very well by Millar. He did have a villainous moment (or three) when he left Cyclops for dead, but he was introduced as a villain so it's wasn't really out of character for him. That was, imo, the beginning of his redemption where he became the more typical version of the anti hero we know in 616, prior to that he fought with the X-Men, but not necessarily for the X-Men if that makes any sense. To him the X-Men were simply a better opportunity than the brotherhood but it wasn't something he believed in, once Cyke forgave him we saw him start to believe in Xavier's dream.

There are other issues that don't age well through out both X-Men and Ultimates but I don't think its nearly as "edge lord" as people think. One of the things I enjoyed most about the original UU is that the character's were written like real people. Anyways I could talk about the UU forever but I'll leave it at this and hope that the new version is as enjoyable as it's predecessor.

[The Overlord]

I feel like it's time to re-read Ultimate X-Men, I used to read it annually but it's been awhile since I've done that. As for how the series aged I think there are definitely a few defining moments that didn't age well but overall I think a lot of nuance in the stories is being over looked. Originally, Magneto was a sympathetic character, the UU used the base of his development in 616 as a holocaust survivor who was just trying to protect his people, he even had his own Genosha that was a haven for all mutants, he didn't really turn into a mustache twirling villain until Loeb wrote him. Wolverine was the most fleshed out character in the whole Ultimate X-Men line and his arc from Magneto's assassin to X-Men stalwart was done very well by Millar. He did have a villainous moment (or three) when he left Cyclops for dead, but he was introduced as a villain so it's wasn't really out of character for him. That was, imo, the beginning of his redemption where he became the more typical version of the anti hero we know in 616, prior to that he fought with the X-Men, but not necessarily for the X-Men if that makes any sense. To him the X-Men were simply a better opportunity than the brotherhood but it wasn't something he believed in, once Cyke forgave him we saw him start to believe in Xavier's dream.

There are other issues that don't age well through out both X-Men and Ultimates but I don't think its nearly as "edge lord" as people think. One of the things I enjoyed most about the original UU is that the character's were written like real people. Anyways I could talk about the UU forever but I'll leave it at this and hope that the new version is as enjoyable as it's predecessor.

I think Ultimate Magneto sucked from day one, he is a Hitler/bin Laden like blood psychopath from day one and instead of being a survivor of genocide and defender of mutant rights, wasn't he just a Scion of oil barons? Ultimate Magneto shot out his own son's knee caps and attempted to use Sentinels to kill everyone in the US, why would find this character sympathetic? He is just puppy eating psychopath. Why would I think he cares about other mutants, when he shoots out his own son's knee caps, why would I think he is a sympathetic villain when he wanted to commit mass genocide for no good reason? I don't see how Ultimate Magneto is more of a real person than 616 Magneto. Ultimate Magneto was always a one dimensional cartoon villain.

Why is every Ultimate villain who is not a joke presented as a irredeemable monster with almost no redeeming qualities? Is that realistic, villains with almost no redeeming qualities?


Ultimate Wolverine was irredeemable ever since he tried left Cyclops for dead, why should I care about Wolverine being a protagonist when he is all flaws and almost no virtues? Also didn't he try to sleep with a teenage Mary Jane when his mind was switched with Spidey? Why shouldn't I want to see him in prison instead of being the protagonist? Why should I root him for him and want him to succeed? And if I don't want to root for him, why should I want to see him at all?

I think there is a lot to improve from the OG Ultimate Universe, it's not 2002 anymore.