If you could revise a Wonder character's origin

[Agent Z]

The Amazons

I'd take elements of both the Marston and Perez origins. The original Amazons are women who died from violence and oppression like the Perez backstory. Occasionally, women fleeing from the worst the world has to offer find their way to Themyscira, with everyone from queens of fallen kingdoms to peasants with no money to their name joining. The Amazons are predominantly of European, African and Asian origin. While the Greek goddesses are their main patrons, other goddesses are acknowledged and even worshipped as well. This also includes the Scythian pantheon. Amazon culture borrows many elements of the Amazons' countries of origin. The Amazons being vilified by violent patriarchs is also kept intact.

The Amazons' have developed a fighting style inspired by the concept of chi/ki that enhances their physical attributes, giving them strength, speed, agility, durability, stamina and senses far beyond that of normal humans. Practitioners of this art can be as powerful as a Kryptonian or as "weak" as Midnighter. Practitioners can also add their own special flavor to their fighting style such as channeling explosive energy bursts through their strikes or enhancing their speed to the point they seem to be invisible.

Many Amazons are also trained in magic due to their affiliation with Hecate, Isis and other deities of magic. Their spells include invisibility, barrier creation, manifesting of spectral objects, teleportation and control of the elements of fire, water, air and aether. However, the Amazons do not use earth magic either because they consider it sacred due to Gaia or they fear it will awaken her. It is also possible for Amazons to use both magic and Amazon martial arts. Examples are Hippolyta, Donna, Nubia and Alkyione.

Amazon warriors can also wield mystical weapons like the Lasso of Truth and the Bow of Light. These weapons are created from the Amazons' soul and are linked to them as an extension of their being. An Amazon's mystic weapon cannot be used by anyone else unless the Amazon gives permission and they can summon them from any location or manifest them as bursts of light from their bodies.

[marhawkman]

Circe: Aeaea gets far too little attention, in the myths it was Circe's kingdom, and was actually a proper kingdom, not just her palace and pets. In the myths, Circe had a family living there as well.

Some depictions in comics have actually showed... quite a city there. Having Circe be functionally alone just feels wrong.

So... who lives in Aeaea? the myths had several children of Circe who lived there.

[Tzigone]

Donna being independent and having a close relationship with Diana aren't mutually exclusive.

Maybe theoretically not, but in practice "a close relationship" with heroes in the same "family" overwhelmingly means one center and the rest satellites, or at least that's how I perceive it. Also, it tends to keep the younger as "junior" members - receiving guidance, but never giving it, not an equal hero, but always "looking up" which is a place I loathe for any adult hero. I am very much on-record with numerous families that I prefer the younger heroes to leave to their own cities and rarely see their older counterpoints in "work" situations (social is okay) and that I prefer they not all be one big family (and please not create characters more in the family, even if I like a lot of them already).

I am also very much a fan of the Donna was developed as not close to Diana in the old days, and don't want that changed. I similarly hate Kon being cast in the "son" role, rather than the most distant "cousin" role with Clark. It makes those figures among the most important, if not the most important relationships in the younger heroes' lives, leaving by the wayside the independent (not connected to the "central" hero) relationships that (in both Donna and Kon's cases) I originally loved and that were what attracted me to the character in the first place. Cassie can be tight with Diana as a mentor figure - that's her history. It's not Donna's, and I don't want it to be. I know others strongly disagree, but that's my feelings on the matter. It's not the character history or relationship dynamic I liked in the first place, it doesn't add anything to Donna that I think valuable, I think it's likely to put/keep Donna to a more supporting role even if she got more use and to diminish other relationships that I value for Donna by making Diana the central one (at least the one with the most page-time). Also, I love a strong friendship/family dynamic, but I often hate a retconned one - be that Kon and Clark, Wally and Barry, or Donna and Diana. Actually, or Bruce and Alfred - though that one is very much beloved.

I have no problem with others loving the idea of Donna and Diana always being close, but it's not for me and there's nothing about it that sounds advantageous to Donna to me. I would much rather see her her existing/historical relationships to her mother or the Titans or see her forging connections with civilian characters (I seriously want to see more "ordinary" people as supporting casts and important relationships for heroes, in general) and for those to be the central relationships. Likewise, I feel like I want to see more Steve and Etta and not even more heroes/villains in Diana's circle of those closest. With her mother and other Amazons and Cassie, she has a good number of people already, and if there were more relationships to be featured, I'd focus on those she already has historically strong ties to or more "ordinary" people like Vanessa (though maybe ones her own age).

[Agent Z]

Maybe theoretically not, but in practice "a close relationship" with heroes in the same "family" overwhelmingly means one center and the rest satellites, or at least that's how I perceive it. Also, it tends to keep the younger as "junior" members - receiving guidance, but never giving it, not an equal hero, but always "looking up" which is a place I loathe for any adult hero. I am very much on-record with numerous families that I prefer the younger heroes to leave to their own cities and rarely see their older counterpoints in "work" situations (social is okay) and that I prefer they not all be one big family (and please not create characters more in the family, even if I like a lot of them already).

I am also very much a fan of the Donna was developed as not close to Diana in the old days, and don't want that changed. I similarly hate Kon being cast in the "son" role, rather than the most distant "cousin" role with Clark. It makes those figures among the most important, if not the most important relationships in the younger heroes' lives, leaving by the wayside the independent (not connected to the "central" hero) relationships that (in both Donna and Kon's cases) I originally loved and that were what attracted me to the character in the first place. Cassie can be tight with Diana as a mentor figure - that's her history. It's not Donna's, and I don't want it to be. I know others strongly disagree, but that's my feelings on the matter. It's not the character history or relationship dynamic I liked in the first place, it doesn't add anything to Donna that I think valuable, I think it's likely to put/keep Donna to a more supporting role even if she got more use and to diminish other relationships that I value for Donna by making Diana the central one (at least the one with the most page-time). Also, I love a strong friendship/family dynamic, but I often hate a retconned one - be that Kon and Clark, Wally and Barry, or Donna and Diana. Actually, or Bruce and Alfred - though that one is very much beloved.

I have no problem with others loving the idea of Donna and Diana always being close, but it's not for me and there's nothing about it that sounds advantageous to Donna to me. I would much rather see her her existing/historical relationships to her mother or the Titans or see her forging connections with civilian characters (I seriously want to see more "ordinary" people as supporting casts and important relationships for heroes, in general) and for those to be the central relationships. Likewise, I feel like I want to see more Steve and Etta and not even more heroes/villains in Diana's circle of those closest. With her mother and other Amazons and Cassie, she has a good number of people already, and if there were more relationships to be featured, I'd focus on those she already has historically strong ties to or more "ordinary" people like Vanessa (though maybe ones her own age).

Dick has had a solo series since the 90s and Wally is one of DC's most successful legacy characters. They both have far closer relationships with their mentors than Donna has with hers. If anything, Donna is far less of an independent character since she's far more known for being on teams and defined by her relationships with the men in her life.

[DABellWrites]

Diana: just blur all her origins so anyone can pick and choose. For WW2 and Earth-1: Steve is transported into the future with Etta Candy and the Holiday College girls.

Donna: Saved by Wonder Woman, trained by the Amazons, used the purple ray gun to give her powers.

Cassie: Honestly, I haven't figured out Cassie yet, but I'd take out the Zeus retcon. I also don't like the metahuman concept, so that's out of the blue. So, gift of the Gods? Best fit in my opinion.

Artemis: Geoerge Perez.

Yara: Brazilian Amazon who decided she wanted to see the world.

[Agent Z]

Diana: just blur all her origins so anyone can pick and choose. For WW2 and Earth-1: Steve is transported into the future with Etta Candy and the Holiday College girls.

Donna: Saved by Wonder Woman, trained by the Amazons, used the purple ray gun to give her powers.

Cassie: Honestly, I haven't figured out Cassie yet, but I'd take out the Zeus retcon. I also don't like the metahuman concept, so that's out of the blue. So, gift of the Gods? Best fit in my opinion.

Artemis: Geoerge Perez.

Yara: Brazilian Amazon who decided she wanted to see the world.

How do you mean?

[John Venus]

Maybe theoretically not, but in practice "a close relationship" with heroes in the same "family" overwhelmingly means one center and the rest satellites, or at least that's how I perceive it. Also, it tends to keep the younger as "junior" members - receiving guidance, but never giving it, not an equal hero, but always "looking up" which is a place I loathe for any adult hero. I am very much on-record with numerous families that I prefer the younger heroes to leave to their own cities and rarely see their older counterpoints in "work" situations (social is okay) and that I prefer they not all be one big family (and please not create characters more in the family, even if I like a lot of them already).

I am also very much a fan of the Donna was developed as not close to Diana in the old days, and don't want that changed. I similarly hate Kon being cast in the "son" role, rather than the most distant "cousin" role with Clark. It makes those figures among the most important, if not the most important relationships in the younger heroes' lives, leaving by the wayside the independent (not connected to the "central" hero) relationships that (in both Donna and Kon's cases) I originally loved and that were what attracted me to the character in the first place. Cassie can be tight with Diana as a mentor figure - that's her history. It's not Donna's, and I don't want it to be. I know others strongly disagree, but that's my feelings on the matter. It's not the character history or relationship dynamic I liked in the first place, it doesn't add anything to Donna that I think valuable, I think it's likely to put/keep Donna to a more supporting role even if she got more use and to diminish other relationships that I value for Donna by making Diana the central one (at least the one with the most page-time). Also, I love a strong friendship/family dynamic, but I often hate a retconned one - be that Kon and Clark, Wally and Barry, or Donna and Diana. Actually, or Bruce and Alfred - though that one is very much beloved.

I have no problem with others loving the idea of Donna and Diana always being close, but it's not for me and there's nothing about it that sounds advantageous to Donna to me. I would much rather see her her existing/historical relationships to her mother or the Titans or see her forging connections with civilian characters (I seriously want to see more "ordinary" people as supporting casts and important relationships for heroes, in general) and for those to be the central relationships. Likewise, I feel like I want to see more Steve and Etta and not even more heroes/villains in Diana's circle of those closest. With her mother and other Amazons and Cassie, she has a good number of people already, and if there were more relationships to be featured, I'd focus on those she already has historically strong ties to or more "ordinary" people like Vanessa (though maybe ones her own age).

Your argument basically boils down to two things; 'that's not how things were when I initially read it' and 'characters having close relationships or even becoming closer over the decades weakens them' before looping back around to the 'that's not how things were when I read it'.

By that logic Donna shouldn't even exist and it should be a time traveling teen version of Diana. The relationships are what the audience responds to and what humanizes these characters.

Diana not having a close relationship with Donna; her adopted sister, someone she rescued and brought to Paradise Island, works in Man's World with her, uses a codename and costume similar to her, is not an edict that needs to be followed but something that needs to be fixed because it's out of character for Diana to not have a close relationship with Donna.

[SiegePerilous02]

For the following, I'd like to adhere as close to Pre-Crisis Earth-1 as much as possible while bringing in some later elements

Donna and the Titans: the male Titans are imprisoned in Tartarus, while the female Titans lead by Rhea left Earth to travel the cosmos (save for Thia, who sided with the men and shared their fate). They found New Cronus, etc. Rhea rescues doomed children on 12 planets from across the galaxy and imbues them with Titan Seeds and divine names before depositing them at safe locations. Donna (rescued from the fire) is the only one with a name but is given the secret name "Troy," and Rhea delivers her to Themyscira for Hippolyta to raise. Donna subconsciously knows the name Rhea gave her, so chooses "Donna Troy" as her alias when she lives in Man's World on her own. This preserves as much of her pre-Crisis and post-Crisis origins and adventures as possible: she is raised from an infant by Hippolyta, becomes Wonder Girl soon after Diana becomes Wonder Woman, she joins Starfire, Raven and the Amazons in battling Hyperion and the Titans, Lilith is still Thia's daughter, and Donna gains a power up and new allies when later learning of New Cronus.

Cheetah: I'm always torn between having one Cheetah or preserving both Priscilla and Barbara. If the latter, Priscilla would be the first Cheetah and would have her Alex Ross design. When Priscilla is killed in one of the conflicts, Diana soon meets and befriends her niece, Dr. Barbara Minerva (the daughter perhaps of a much older sister of Priscilla. Priscilla is the aunt, but could be the same age or even younger than Barbara. I don't think Priscilla's vanity could handle Barbara calling her "auntie"). Barbara's Rebirth origin would be in place, set up by Veronica Cale and Dr. Cyber, but should piss off Mafdet by pillaging a sacred tomb and get cursed. As a way to keep WW busy, maybe Dr. Cyber could secretly coordinate a conflict between Diana and Kobra as a nod to that group's role in turning Deborah into the Cheetah?

Silver Swan: Let's just straight up bring Helen Alexandros back.

Paula von Gunther: A high ranking member of the SEAR group using the codename "the Baroness", who answers directly to Deception, Greed and Conquest. She is a brainwashed super soldier, and her "sidekick" Mavis is secretly her handler. When Diana helps to break her conditioning and appeal to her better nature during a climactic conflict with SEAR, she brings Paula to live with the Amazons to continue her rehabilitation and deprograming. Gerta could be part of the organization as well and they are eyeing her to follow her mother's path, but Diana and Paula are able to bring her with them to Themyscira.

Quoting myself, I think I would amend the above to be across a longer timeline and tweak Donna's origin away from what I have listed here. I would have Diana debut as Wonder Woman around the time Clark is Superboy. Pre-Crisis, Superboy was a world renowned superhero recognized by the U.N. So he'd have his status as the first public DC superhero preserved. Diana would be (physically) 18 while Clark would be 13-14, also allowing us to eliminate the ship teasing between them (he'd view her more as a sister). Soon after arriving in our world, Diana would rescue a 2-3 year old Donna from the fire and bring her back to Themyscira. Wonder Woman's Golden Age set-up would play out here: Diana Prince I.D., romance with Steve, Etta with the Holliday Girls, Invisible Plane, and her entire Golden Age rogues gallery.

Around the late Silver/early Bronze Age, we could pull a "the Night Gwen Stacy Died" and have Steve permanently killed by Cheetah, with Priscilla getting killed soon after. Over the next couple of years she befriends Barbara Minerva, and Barbara is cursed into becoming Cheetah II around the time Donna is joining the New Teen Titans (matching the irl publication dates of NTT#1 and Deborah becoming the Cheetah II). From here, we could transition to Diana mostly dropping the "Diana Prince" I.D. to become the recognized ambassador to Themysicra once the Amazons decide to open their borders, and her supporting cast can transition to Julia and Vanessa, Myndi and Ferdinand. Etta would remain her BFF, but I would borrow from Alan Moore's Glory and have Etta be a civilian who owns a diner/restaurant (maybe Ferdinand can work there).

If Donna gets a power up to become Troia, it would be built off of her stories with the Titans in pre-Crisis continuity.

[Agent Z]

Aresia Kosmatos

A Greek woman whose family was killed in the Greco-Italian War. Reborn as an Enrinye, she avenges crimes against women and children but over time has found herself questioning if she cannot do more than simply punish the guilty. Which brings her to...

Alcmaeon

A hero in Ancient Greece whose exploits were overshadowed by the likes of Heracles, Odysseus and Jason. However, Alcmaeon realized he didn't need to be famous to make something of himself. After acquiring a means to become immortal, Alcmaeon spent the rest of his life doing anything and everything to amass power - from participating in wars to building wealth through murder, theft, slavery and extortion. Alcmaeon's greatest weapon is anonymity.

[Stanlos]

Diana: just blur all her origins so anyone can pick and choose. For WW2 and Earth-1: Steve is transported into the future with Etta Candy and the Holiday College girls.

Donna: Saved by Wonder Woman, trained by the Amazons, used the purple ray gun to give her powers.

Cassie: Honestly, I haven't figured out Cassie yet, but I'd take out the Zeus retcon. I also don't like the metahuman concept, so that's out of the blue. So, gift of the Gods? Best fit in my opinion.

Artemis: Geoerge Perez.

Yara: Brazilian Amazon who decided she wanted to see the world.

I was very surprised to read about how Donna got powers the first time around. I had always assumed it was Amazon training like the regular ladies from Marston run. Imagine my surprise to recently read of the Amazons using the Purple Ray to imbue Donna with an "infinitessimal fraction of each Amazons' strength and speed".

I don't know how I had missed it all these years.

Also, how does the Board feel about Donna's original Troia powers?

[Agent Z]

I was very surprised to read about how Donna got powers the first time around. I had always assumed it was Amazon training like the regular ladies from Marston run. Imagine my surprise to recently read of the Amazons using the Purple Ray to imbue Donna with an "infinitessimal fraction of each Amazons' strength and speed".

I don't know how I had missed it all these years.

Also, how does the Board feel about Donna's original Troia powers?

I do appreciate the attempt to differentiate her from Diana.

[Agent Z]

Zara - I'd maker her an Ifrit.

[marhawkman]

I was very surprised to read about how Donna got powers the first time around. I had always assumed it was Amazon training like the regular ladies from Marston run. Imagine my surprise to recently read of the Amazons using the Purple Ray to imbue Donna with an "infinitessimal fraction of each Amazons' strength and speed".

I don't know how I had missed it all these years.

Also, how does the Board feel about Donna's original Troia powers?

Yeah, good way to make her not just another Amazon.

also... why on Earth would the Amazons empower Donna anyways? They don't do stuff like that often. Why?

Which, yeah, this is why I came up with the fan-fic fusion of the "saved from a house fire" and "empowered by Titans" origins.

It gives Diana a reason to take Donna to Themiscyra.