Canon Events

[KurtW95]

I just saw the second Spider-Verse movie and I was wonder what people thought about the idea. I don't know how I feel about it. I mean I get it somewhat, but there's a lot of it that doesn't make sense. If the multiverse is infinite, why are such events so important? Why aren't other aspects as important?

I would argue that Spider-Man being Peter Parker should be a constant if there had to be one. And the idea that a police captain has to die is pretty weird. Did it happen to Miguel at all or not?

I think if you're talking about Peter Parker's canon, Uncle Ben dying and Peter getting bitten seem to be the constants eventwise.

I think these movies have not thought through some of what they're doing. Like what happened to Gwen Stacy in the primary world. I don't know what they're going to do in the movie after this one but if they're in a world where the spider never bit anyone, it would be interesting to see what Peter, May, Ben, and Gwen are up to. And any appearance from Harry or Flash.

And despite the great reappearances, No Way Home was even more confusing with its multiverse rules.

I feel like the 90s series still managed to do an interdimensional Spider-Man story the best and make the most sense.

[Kevinroc]

The idea is no different than other stories about fate, about destiny. And there have been conflicting stories about whether someone can fight fate or if the future refused to change.

The Spider-Verse movies are made by different people than who made No Way Home. And Spider-Verse and NWH were made by different people than who made an episode of What If? where Dr. Strange fights fate and ends up destroying his universe.

My advise would be not to worry about it.

[marhawkman]

multiverse... even when it's not. Yeah, the original Inheritor idea was a multiversal anomaly, and... then we see a new story with a different anomaly....

[KurtW95]

I'm not worrying about it. I just wanted to know what people thought.

[marhawkman]

I hate the idea of multiversal singularities. It ruins the fun of having a multiverse when you declare one reality to be the best or most important.

[Majesty]

I love the idea that canon events are bollocks and people should be able to choose their own destinies as opposed to having to be forced down a fixed path that the gatekeeper says they should or have to. That and as a commentary against people that push back against heroes taken in different directions, or other heroes existing in those directions, it was very effective. From a storytelling standpoint I loved it thoroughly as all those layers came together I thought Spectacularly. As a writer whom wanted to work in comics, whenever I talked to some that have the reality of being told "You can't do this. You can't do that. THIS has to stay this way. THIS has to stay that way." or being told "You can do this." only to get told later "Actually you can't, because higher ups say so." and keeping or allowing your creativity to only reach a certain length, is something you just have to get used to and work within the parameters of, even if it comes at the expense of the story you may be planning because 'status quo is God'. To have a movie that essentially had Miguel playing that role trying to keep the status quo, and Miles being something that existed outside of that whom freely wants to do his own thing, I adored that kind of metaphor, whether intended or not. Because it was that line of thinking which had discouraged me that time ago from working on comics for others that would try to limit what I wanted to do, but encouraged me to make my own stories and become a better writer and storyteller.

So I loved it.

[Alan2099]

My impression from the movie was that Miguel was wrong. He assumes that's what canon events are and that's how they work, but hasn't exactly got the details right.

[godisawesome]

My impression from the movie was that Miguel was wrong. He assumes that's what canon events are and that's how they work, but hasn't exactly got the details right.

Yup.

In general, I think there’s 2 sort of “rules” here:

- Stylistically, the film wants to use meta-text to discuss the larger franchise, which is why the “constants” can vary so greatly while still resembling each other so much. In theory, you could do an infinite number of Peters with infinite differences, but they want to talk about an infinite number of Spider-Men instead. They also want to address the ideas of fate and destiny as many sci-go stories do, but also comic book trends and “essay” analysis - the arguments about why certain stories work and why creators frequently use certain tropes. “Captain Stacy dies” is an easier story to use as the “hero must suffer” trope than a girl-friend dying because it avoids some sexist tropes and also allows for an easier tale with Miles.

So the rules for the multiverse run on the same “Rule of Comedy” and “Rule of Drama” the rest of the film does, rather than on a faithful recreation of the scientific principle of a multiverse - it’s a “literary” multiverse instead of a “reality” one.

- And yes, the implication of the film is that the older Spider-Men have all noticed parallels in their lives, and those parallels are predictable enough for a multi-verse-percieving super computer to alert them to their likelihood of happening… but they’ve accidentally ignored some variables and obsessed over others while dealing with the scary consequences of multiversal travel. Miguel is convinced and guilt-ridden over the idea that his “invasion” of a multiverse to replace an alternate destroyed it, but it might very well have been destroyed by some other multiversal shenanigans - especially since he and others aren’t taking into account how there’s not exact parallels for everything. Indian Spider-Man, for instance, doesn’t appear to have lost an Uncle Ben counterpart…

[LordMikel]

Personally I hate canon events. I was actually going to ask a similar question. I don't want to read a what if comic and hit the same milestones as if it was the normal comic.

I realized that is why I always hated the Darkseid vs Galactus comic. It used the Silver Surfer turning on Galactus canon as a part of the story. Which I honestly found to be lazy writing more than anything else.

So no, I don't think writers should ever rely on canon events.

[KurtW95]

I just realized that this falls apart when you look at MCU Spider-Man.

[Kevinroc]

I just realized that this falls apart when you look at MCU Spider-Man.

You don't even need to go that far.

Maguire's Spider-Man never lost a police captain, nor was he particularly close to one. Unless they're saying Captain Stacy, a dude he interacted with for like a minute is someone he was particularly close to who later died while he was around.

Again, though, not really the point.

(Although you could stretch Tony Stark into being the Captain Stacy of MCU Spider-Man. Certainly works better than the Uncle Ben.)