John Byrne run thoughts?

[Pinsir]

I can't recall where I'd place the overall narrative, but he wrote an annual that I put into my Top 10 Post-Crisis Wonder Woman stories

“The Necropolis” (Wonder Woman Annual Vol 2 #6) – For those of you who are familiar with my Silver Age favourites you’ll know I love the original Wonder Girl stories by Robert Kanigher. This story by John Byrne channels a lot of what I like about those tales into a darker story, but still manages to capture a sense of adventure that made the original Silver Age stories so endearing. One of my favourite Post-Crisis tales for sure!

Overall I liked his run from start to finish, WW has a pretty consistent supporting cast that I enjoyed and I came to appreciate the art too.

[DisneyBoy]

I think by “reboot” is that DC wanted the WW book to become a more standard superhero book than the Greek myth/soap opera stuff under Perez.

...and to accomplish this, they gave us unnecessary Amazon Queen drama and a torrid love affair and family secrets? Diana casting away her crown?

I'll grant you the Wizard stuff and the space adventure were more typical superhero plots...but messing with the origin just for the hell of it doesn't strike me as wanting to do less with the Greek history side of things...

[Stanlos]

You mean of Perez and WM-L....right?

I've yet to read the whole of Byrne's run, only bits and pieces, some of it rather weird (clay hand anyone?), but I did like the art well enough (though everyone was way too skinny) and Gateway City as a new locale felt fitting.

Diana as the Goddess of Truth was a worthy concept but her dying at all was silly and premature. What did she even do up on Mount Olympus issue after issue before returning to the mortal plane? I can't remember.

Cassie has never been especially compelling to me, but I did like how stressed Helena generally seemed - pretty realistic given her geeky nature and protectiveness over her daughter, who was a ball of energy. Helena made Julia seem cooler and more capable by comparison. Imagine Helena shooting beastiamorphs!

Did we ever find out the BTS reasons why the Kapatelis/Sandsmark thing happened at all?

Jason Blood was a random but cool supporting character to have in Diana's orbit.

I like Hippolyta as WW of WW2 but agree the whole thing was weird, mostly due to WM-L's hatchetjob on her.

When was it firmly stated was WM-L was doing a reboot? I know he redid the origin story to make Hippolyta look like a liar who fell for Herakles and sculpted Diana to look like Antiope...which was awful. Just awful. But beyond that, was DC seeing the end of the Perez era as a time to throw out his influence over the character?

I thought they always loved what he did for WW.

Oh no, WML was given carte blanc to go as far from Perez as he wanted and he literally changed most everything from the origin of Paradise Island to the origin of the Amazons to the mechanics of her bracelets (spoiler alert--under WML they were just indestructible but had no passive protective abilities so she would often sprain or bruise when turning away shots) to her superspeed (which Greg Rucka BRILLIANTLY reconciles during his run) to the power levels of the Amazons themselves. But he also added quite a bit to the lore too (obviously the new Orana in Artemis but also provided glimpses into the Amazons ' standard mastery of magic and spells, abilities to travel interdimensionally unassisted, and he defined her armor/costume/suit as nigh indestructible and defiant of physical principles. So it wasn't all bad. But Byrne clearly wanted to go Big and so put her levels and origins back to Perez level before completely screwing up everything due to his slavish devotion to Jack Kirby.)

[Sebastianne]

I can't recall where I'd place the overall narrative, but he wrote an annual that I put into my Top 10 Post-Crisis Wonder Woman stories



Overall I liked his run from start to finish, WW has a pretty consistent supporting cast that I enjoyed and I came to appreciate the art too.

Oh **** yeah, I give that story from that Annual to the students who are doing the entrance course to the Architecture career, along with other comics in which they can see issues related to cities and architecture.

[Pinsir]

Oh **** yeah, I give that story from that Annual to the students who are doing the entrance course to the Architecture career, along with other comics in which they can see issues related to cities and architecture.

It's nice to know someone else read and appreciated that work because it seems to be a rather 'forgotten' WW story (probably because it is an annual). It does have a lot of nice landscapes to it and the art is drawn by someone other than John Byrne if you can't stand his pencils.

[Jim Kelly]

I read the 1987 WONDER WOMAN reboot during its first few years, but I gave up on it eventually. Then I started to read it again around the Messner-Loebs/Deodato run. When it reached issue 100, that was going to be my last issue. I was disenchanted with John Byrne and didn't want to see what he would do to Princess Diana, so I dropped the title.

A little later, I got into Byrne's work on NEW GODS/JACK KIRBY'S FOURTH WORLD and I felt I had to pick up WONDER WOMAN again, to see how it was all connected. I liked what I found, so I had to get the back issues I'd missed.

Things I liked about the John Byrne run:

The Sandsmarks. While it's true that they were essentially a Byrne revision of the Kapatelises, I found the Kapatelises hard to swallow. The Sandsmarks were much easier to digest.

Amalgamating the Greco-Roman pantheon. The Potter/Wein/Perez run made out that the Greek and Roman pantheon were two entirely different sets of gods--which is ridiculous. Constrained to work within the established continuity, Byrne had to sort out this mess, yet he was able to restore the Greco-Roman pantheon as it had always been in reality.

Wonder Woman in World War Two. Because of the reboot, Byrne couldn't put things back the way they should have been all along, but he was able to give the Justice Society back a Wonder Woman, even if it was Hippolyte. In the actual 1940s comics, Hippolyte did pose as Wonder Woman in at least one adventure (maybe more). And it's not like Diana pre-dates Hippolyte--the Amazon Queen has a few thousands years on her daughter.

Using Paradise Island for time travel. Much like the Rock Eternity, it was established that the Island existed outside of time and you could get to any time period from it. It would have been cool if we got more of this.

More Fun Comics. The Potter/Wein/Perez run was just too studied. I give them credit for doing research (although much of it was inaccurate) but it felt like reading an encyclopedia entry and lacked all the spice that is in the original classical literature (read THE GOLDEN ASS by Apuleius to see what I mean). Byrne got back to comics that were fun to read.

An okay costume. I've never felt that the Amazing Amazon's costume is terribly well designed--one of the major reasons I couldn't be bothered with Wonder Woman when I was a little kid. Byrne did the best he could with that design. Connecting the belt with the eagle was part of the original H.G. Peter design. Simplifying the stars and making them bigger is what other artists had done already before (Bob Oksner, Alex Toth). On the whole, I thought Byrne's art was pretty good. I don't know if he inked with Sharpies, but it's not a crime to do so. Many artists--such as Gil Kane and Terry Austin--have used pens rather than brushes for inking.

Things I didn't like:

Calling Hippolyte "Polly." Groan. Well, the Justice Society were always stupid with names, especially for women. They insulted the Red Tornado by calling her "the Red Tomato."

The whole Dark Angel thing. I like the original version of Baroness Paula von Gunther who was reformed and became a scientist on Paradise Island.

Making the Kirby Fourth World supreme. Byrne wanted to make Jack Kirby the creator of everything. But that meant the ancient gods took a backseat to the New Gods. I wasn't too happy with Diana being elevated to the Goddess of Truth, either--and yet that is the one thing from Byrne that has stuck.

[Agent Z]

Amalgamating the Greco-Roman pantheon. The Potter/Wein/Perez run made out that the Greek and Roman pantheon were two entirely different sets of gods--which is ridiculous.

Considering what you say down below, I find it odd you'd criticize a Wonder Woman comic for being "ridiculous".

Wonder Woman in World War Two. Because of the reboot, Byrne couldn't put things back the way they should have been all along, but he was able to give the Justice Society back a Wonder Woman, even if it was Hippolyte.

Why should there have been a Wonder Woman in the Justice Society in the first place? Especially since all anyone remembers about her from that time is her being their secretary.

More Fun Comics. The Potter/Wein/Perez run was just too studied. I give them credit for doing research (although much of it was inaccurate) but it felt like reading an encyclopedia entry and lacked all the spice that is in the original classical literature (read THE GOLDEN ASS by Apuleius to see what I mean). Byrne got back to comics that were fun to read.

I feel like "fun" is fast becoming one of those words that is so often misused, it is in danger of losing its real meaning. "Fun" just means enjoyable.

I wasn't too happy with Diana being elevated to the Goddess of Truth, either--and yet that is the one thing from Byrne that has stuck

It hasn't.

[marhawkman]

Why should there have been a Wonder Woman in the Justice Society in the first place? Especially since all anyone remembers about her from that time is her being their secretary.

Yeah... speaking of words losing meaning... "secretary"... same definition of "secretary" in "Secretary of State".