John Byrne run thoughts?

[Jim Kelly]

A lot of the other negative opinions of Byrne I've known about for a long time, but I never knew any Wonder fans thought his Mike Schorr was ugly. I don't even know where that would come from. He's a perfectly good John Byrne style hero. Seems to me Byrne was going through a bit of a Noel Sickles/Frank Robbins/Milt Caniff period--their adventure strip art style being a big influence on comic book artists of the 1940s and 1950s. Maybe these folks would also hate SCORCHY SMITH, TERRY AND THE PIRATES, JOHNNY HAZARD and STEVE CANYON.

[kcekada]

I didn't hate Schorr -- didn't particularly like him since he was an obvious replacement for the cop created by Perez who also had a crush on Diana. I don't think he either guy was really loved by fans, but don't recall any hate either. Except for occasional/misguided dalliances with Superman -- Diana has pretty much been without any romantic entanglements since Perez modified her after Crisis. I don't think anything became of Nemesis (who seemed like a sub for Trevor). But I don't follow the character or series that closely, TBH.

[M@Bowers2014]

I have no recollection of Mike Schorr. I just had to look the character up and I still don't remember him.

[Koriand'r]

I have no recollection of Mike Schorr. I just had to look the character up and I still don't remember him.

That was Mike Schorr's problem, not that he wasn't stereotypically good looking. Ed Indelicato his predecessor was hardly a dreamboat and most of us liked him.

[Frank]

I think one of the best things about Byrne's run was Cassie, yet it was Peter David who made me really love her over in Young Justice. But even when it was Byrne's Cassie, she was still fun and had spirit. I also loved putting Diana in her own city. And I loved the return of the invisible plane, and I really like Hippolyta as the WW II Wonder Woman. The only real way a WW II Wonder Woman works in the JSA is if she isn't the mega-powered juggernaut that Perez made her (barring some silver age moments, like her lassoing and lifting that island). Also, in the beginning, it was just...traditional, fun heroics.

But there was a lot to dislike: the copious guest stars, the minimal development of Diana, and the art - I remember a friend of mine who loved Byrne and was disappointed with his art initially, saying "I just don't understand why this art looks like it was drawn with magic marker!" I also remember reading an interview in Wizard where Byrne said that the only way he could afford to take the job was if he did the writing, art, inking, and lettering, that WW couldn't really afford him otherwise. And my god - making Donna even more complicated than Perez and Wolfman had already made her post-crisis...ugh. This so undermined Donna's character and led to at least a half-dozen "Am I really a person" storylines that were nauseating.

I wasn't super-familiar with Byrne's stuff outside of X-men, and I read a lot before he started: Next Men, She-Hulk, Fantastic Four, Superman...I hadn't read any of it, and I was really excited. I don't think he run was the worst, but it was disappointing because the caliber of some of his other work was so much higher.

[kcekada]

I wasn't super-familiar with Byrne's stuff outside of X-men, and I read a lot before he started: Next Men, She-Hulk, Fantastic Four, Superman...I hadn't read any of it, and I was really excited. I don't think he run was the worst, but it was disappointing because the caliber of some of his other work was so much higher.

I was/am very familiar with his pre-WW work. I'm probably in the minority of not loving his X-Men work --- preferred Dave Cockrum -- Byrne's X-Men tended to look flat and sometimes cartoony. But he improved over his run -- and by Dark Phoenix Saga, he had corrected some of his earlier shortcomings. Pretty much everything else he did, I liked -- especially Fantastic Four and Namor. The sad thing about his WW run is that it have been shaped into something great if was willing to listen to editors (he's notorious for quitting a book over disagreements with his editors) and at least, not be so full of himself to think he could produced the entire book -- and do it well. It wasn't a horrible run, but by comparison to his previous work, it was a disappointment -- one from which his career never fully recovered.

Oh, and his post-WW was also hit or miss (mostly the latter) -- X-Men, the Hidden Years, Amazing Spider-Man, Doom Patrol -- all disappointing.

[SiegePerilous02]

I've never read it and have no burning desire to. It did the time travel Hippolyta stuff which I loathe, along with making Donna's post-Crisis origins even more convoluted, which I also loathe. Its greatest contribution seems to have been introducing Cassie, and I'm pretty "meh" on her entire generation of heroes.

I also don't think I've enjoyed anything Byrne has done with the obvious and big exception of X-Men. I think having Claremont and scripter and Austin on inks elevated it a great deal above everything else he did

[Koriand'r]

I've never read it and have no burning desire to. It did the time travel Hippolyta stuff which I loathe, along with making Donna's post-Crisis origins even more convoluted, which I also loathe. Its greatest contribution seems to have been introducing Cassie, and I'm pretty "meh" on her entire generation of heroes.

I also don't think I've enjoyed anything Byrne has done with the obvious and big exception of X-Men. I think having Claremont and scripter and Austin on inks elevated it a great deal above everything else he did

Man of Steel and Byrne's Superman era are what made me a fan of the character. Much of She-Hulk's success is because of him. His Fantastic Four, Avengers West Coast and Namor runs were all great. Despite his personality quirks and the decline of his overall work in recent years, Byrne has to be respected as an innovator and one of the best creators in the history of comics.

[SiegePerilous02]

Man of Steel and Byrne's Superman era are what made me a fan of the character. Much of She-Hulk's success is because of him. His Fantastic Four, Avengers West Coast and Namor runs were all great. Despite his personality quirks and the decline of his overall work in recent years, Byrne has to be respected as an innovator and one of the best creators in the history of comics.

I have to disagree at least on Superman and FF, the only ones of those I've read. His Superman comics are some of the most bland things the character ever appeared in and that being the model for the character in the 80s/90s is probably why I used to find him so boring until I discovered the pre-Crisis stuff and works that leaned into more of those sensibilities. FF was ok, but I'm not the one to ask since I'm not wild about them to begin with (and it's still pretty bland compared to 80s X-Men, Spider-Man and Teen Titans).

He may just be a "I guess you had to be there at the time" creator for me. I just don't get the appeal.

[Nyssane]

I would say Byrne's run is probably the worst of the post-Crisis runs for me? But it's not horrible. It also has the first issue of Wonder Woman I ever got as a kid (the one with Doomsday on the cover).

He just spends way too much time on Darkseid, Mike Schorr, Morgaine le Fay, and other random crap that just didn't feel that interesting to me. I don't remember much since it's been a long time since I've read his run, but I remember not loving his Diana too.

Still, I do like Cassie's introduction even if she and her mom are basically just Vanessa and Julia. And he brought back Decay! And of course that Byrne art is always a treat for the eyes. I'm obsessed with how he does Diana's hair.

[Koriand'r]

I have to disagree at least on Superman and FF, the only ones of those I've read. His Superman comics are some of the most bland things the character ever appeared in and that being the model for the character in the 80s/90s is probably why I used to find him so boring until I discovered the pre-Crisis stuff and works that leaned into more of those sensibilities. FF was ok, but I'm not the one to ask since I'm not wild about them to begin with (and it's still pretty bland compared to 80s X-Men, Spider-Man and Teen Titans).

He may just be a "I guess you had to be there at the time" creator for me. I just don't get the appeal.

Your mileage may vary but I loved his Superman. I'll never forget cutting class and reading an issue where Lex was so mean to Lois' mom that had cancer I almost dropped a tear. The particulars of the story elude me but the emotion that ensued is memorable.

[witchboy]

I am actually about to re-read this run soon as part of my massive ongoing re-read of post Crisis DC (or at least the titles I follow).
I enjoyed it more than anyone here it sounds like. I am curious what I think of it after all these years.
My biggest complaint as with most folks here is that it was tacky to replace Julia and Vanessa with such blatant copies. Cassie didn't get likable for me until Young Justice.
I loved Hippolyta as the Golden Age Wonder Woman. It did restore WW to the JSA and gave Hippolyta some much needed redirection after she'd gotten some atrocious character assassination.
I like Donna's new origin, tying her back to Diana and the Amazons. It was more interesting to me than the Titans origin which didn't have the same storytelling potential imo. Donna's origins have been complicated and messy from the beginning and this seemed as good a way as any to fix it. Having Donna recreated from Wally's memories was a misstep though.

[Stanlos]

Wow. I feel like with Byrne on WW, he was in the same situation he had been in when he revamped Superman. His run came after the William Messner-Loebs run which had actually been a reboot. Byrne re-established the Perez origin for Diana and the Amazons. A lot of his editorially mandated assignments had to do with re-establishing a Golden Age WW and reconciling/making sense of the two different continuities of Perez and WilliamMessner-Loebs(shoutouts to DisneBoy for catching that! Good looking oush!).

Those who lamented the Taco Whiz thing cheered for her museum job under Byrne.

Before appraising the run, I always suggest reading the companion npvel WONDER WOMAN: GODS AND GODDESSES. It really enhances the reading of the comic run (and is a rather obvious option for adaptation as a third film in a trilogy).

There were definitely more ticks in the asset column than in the liabilities column at the end of the day.

[DisneyBoy]

A lot of his editorially mandated assignments had to do with re-establishing a Golden Age WW and reconciling/making sense of the two different continuities of Perez and Byrne.

You mean of Perez and WM-L....right?

I've yet to read the whole of Byrne's run, only bits and pieces, some of it rather weird (clay hand anyone?), but I did like the art well enough (though everyone was way too skinny) and Gateway City as a new locale felt fitting.

Diana as the Goddess of Truth was a worthy concept but her dying at all was silly and premature. What did she even do up on Mount Olympus issue after issue before returning to the mortal plane? I can't remember.

Cassie has never been especially compelling to me, but I did like how stressed Helena generally seemed - pretty realistic given her geeky nature and protectiveness over her daughter, who was a ball of energy. Helena made Julia seem cooler and more capable by comparison. Imagine Helena shooting beastiamorphs!

Did we ever find out the BTS reasons why the Kapatelis/Sandsmark thing happened at all?

Jason Blood was a random but cool supporting character to have in Diana's orbit.

I like Hippolyta as WW of WW2 but agree the whole thing was weird, mostly due to WM-L's hatchetjob on her.

When was it firmly stated was WM-L was doing a reboot? I know he redid the origin story to make Hippolyta look like a liar who fell for Herakles and sculpted Diana to look like Antiope...which was awful. Just awful. But beyond that, was DC seeing the end of the Perez era as a time to throw out his influence over the character?

I thought they always loved what he did for WW.

[Gaius]

When was it firmly stated was WM-L was doing a reboot? I know he redid the origin story to make Hippolyta look like a liar who fell for Herakles and sculpted Diana to look like Antiopew...which was awful. Just awful. But beyond that, was DC seeing the end of the Perez era as a time to throw out his influence over the character?

I thought they always loved what he did for WW.

I think by “reboot” is that DC wanted the WW book to become a more standard superhero book than the Greek myth/soap opera stuff under Perez.

I thought they always loved what he did for WW.

Not particularly if how he was treated during the War of the Gods event is any indication. Or at least they didn’t hold it in high regard as it is nowadays.

Even Perez said in interviews he wasn’t aware of the impact he had on the character until writers who were fans of it started writing WW, many years later.