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  1. #16
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Completely not what I expected but I enjoyed it

    The ages of the New Mutants were off though. Im assuming when the X-men were rounding them up, they were in their early 20s but Kitty looked like she was about 8 when she should have been closer to 13. The thing that threw this off was that Dani and Sam both looked to be around 16ish. Those 3 and Kitty are seperated by 3 years at the most, not the 7 or so years this book made them look

  2. #17
    Spectacular Member SugarMan's Avatar
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    It’s almost as if Jean is in the WHR, looking at alternate realities, and burning away what doesn’t work. She wiped away one possibility (the 5 keeping their memories), and is moving along to the shuttle incident. What sill she do there? Don’t know, but we know her journey through the classics takes her to Inferno. And a couple of the final solicits…


    Jean is not the woman she used to be…and neither is the Phoenix power that has so manipulated both her and her clone. Lost in a mad world and separated from her every ally, what desperate move will Jean make to restore the balance?

    Interesting that it says Phoenix “power” and not Phoenix “force”. But that’s probably nothing.

    JEAN GREY'S GREATEST ENEMY! The most powerful telepath on Earth still doesn't know the extent of her own mind
    This is very interesting.
    Last edited by SugarMan; 08-23-2023 at 09:24 AM.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Jman27's Avatar
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    so 616 Jean is making up new timelines or she just her hallucinating as she dies?
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

    "My heart half-breaks at how easy it is to lie to him. It breaks all the way when he believes me without question." Felicia Hardy

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    so 616 Jean is making up new timelines or she just her hallucinating as she dies?
    I don't think she's hallucinating. She's an Omega level tp after all. I can totally see her powers spiking at the moment of her death and hurling her consciousness down her own timeline.

  5. #20
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Finally addressing the logical conclusion of Teen Jean's character if they hadn't wiped their memories was pretty entertaining.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    so 616 Jean is making up new timelines or she just her hallucinating as she dies?
    Jean is not hallucinating, she is having a near-death experience and as her powers reach even new heights---and insights for her--she will resurrect herself in order to save Mutantkind.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    so 616 Jean is making up new timelines or she just her hallucinating as she dies?
    She is thinking "what if the O5 kept memories" and the art is just depicting the line of thought that she goes through.

    I was hoping this book would be something ambitious.
    Last edited by Kitty&Piotr<3; 08-23-2023 at 10:49 AM.

  8. #23
    Incredible Member PhoenixStudies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Jean is not hallucinating, she is having a near-death experience and as her powers reach even new heights---and insights for her--she will resurrect herself in order to save Mutantkind.
    This is my thinking too.

    Jean may be remembering and entertaining certain scenarios but as an Omega-level telepath, maybe she is seeing how things really would have happened if she made different choices. This would parallel what she could do as Phoenix (and has done in Here Comes Tomorrow).

    Of course she may actually be testing and burning away possible timelines. Have to wait and see.

    I do think she is really interacting with the Phoenix power though (and not just imagining it).

  9. #24
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Not what I expected but very interesting. I really thought Louise would have focused on adult Jean herself and her past interactions with the PF. Not this. But, as someone who hated He Who Shall Not Be Named bringing the teen 05 into the current timeline when he did...this is actually a very plausible outcome of what might have happened when they were sent back to their original timeline. Teen Jean's ideology becoming corrupted and the Phoenix basically aiding and abetting said corruption and just making things worse for mutants.

    If the following issues follow a similar trajectory with Jean thoroughly exploring significant events where the Phoenix's presence/influence really made things worse...with Jean acknowledging on every last page that she knows what went wrong...it only really comes down to either one of two conclusions.

    1: She should have never accepted the Phoenix that very first time it came to her...and all of the subsequent pain and anguish and misery would not have occurred. (I don't see that happening, at all)
    or
    2: She should have accepted the Phoenix as an integral part of herself when it came back to her in the cocoon in Jamaica bay and honed it and nurtured it to be an absolute force for Good. (I don't see Louise invalidating that retcon no matter how many fans don't like it. It is a good retcon, she just has to tie it all together and make it make sense...complete the Jean-Phoenix-Jean now and forever! circuit, as it were)
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 08-23-2023 at 11:13 AM.
    Lord Ewing *Praise His name! Uplift Him in song!* Your divine works will be remembered and glorified in worship for all eternity. Amen!

  10. #25
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixStudies View Post
    This is my thinking too.
    But of course, lol! We got A's in our Jean and Phoenix Studies!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  11. #26
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    As usual, the Great Jean Grey & her coping mechanism r worlds apart comparing to Emma

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Uncanny X-Man's Avatar
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    I enjoyed this - I wasn't blown away but I thought both the writing and the art made for a good reading. It's fun to revisit moments from Jean's history with a spin and Jean's first encounter with the Phoenix and Inferno should make for fertile ground for alternate takes in the coming issues.

    I'm ready to be surprised but I see this mini being basically a series of What If's until the last issue reconnects to the present and leads into Jean's return on Immortal X-Men - if the writing remains as entertaining as on this I'm happy with the setup even though it's not the strongest of concepts admittedly.

  13. #28
    Mighty Member Alex_Of_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    3. Is there any significance to current-day Jean’s word bubble on the last page being rendered in the same style and color as Phoenix’s word bubbles throughout the issue?
    To paraphrase solicits text from last year...

    “I am fire and life incarnate! Now and forever.” Which part of “Now and forever” is confusing to you?"

    :P

    A lovely look into Teen Jean. I do wish we had a firmer hook for the next issue rather than "what we just saw, a tad different." Going off the solicit, it'll be Jean rejecting the Phoenix who'll settle for Scott. Not for long, I bet!

  14. #29
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Yay, Mercury! You never let us Jean Grey fans down! Thanks for starting this thread, all of the great scenes and with all of that great detail. Very exciting indeed!

    Here are a few of my ideas to your questions posed:

    1) Here as in just where Jean is at the moment: precipice of death/WHR?

    2) Jean first recognized Phoenix as a young child, either with little Annie Richardson, or soon after when her mind touched Scott's mind (but Xavier failed to sense Scott); AND/OR later in Jean's early X-Men career when she and the X-men and FF went into space....

    3) Quite possibly! I do not think it is coincidence. Like the Progenitor Celestial stated, "Jean Grey now and forever, you are a Phoenix!"
    You're welcome, love! Never stop being you! ::big hug::

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixStudies View Post
    This first issue was more Phoenix heavy than I expected. I knew it would build up to it, but didn't expect so much in the first issue.

    Loved how the intro page, which typically lists the characters in the book, identifies Jean, Phoenix/Dark Phoenix, and Teen Jean as Jean. Of course we know Jean Grey is Jean Grey is Jean Grey, but some fans still try to deny that Phoenix or even Teen Jean were our Jean.

    Loved how Jean described herself as being born in death as a mutant referring to her telepathy activating when she felt Annie's death.

    Its really interesting how they have explored Jean having too much power too quickly can lead her to becoming a radical. We saw that with Xorn Jean and we see it here. She means well and wants to protect mutants, but she goes too far.

    It also shows what can go wrong if Jean simply changes peoples minds all the time. As Phoenix and as time displaced Teen Jean, she would sometimes change people's minds so this has long been a real temptation for her. She should have a better understanding of the ethical problems with that and what could happen if she continually changed people's minds or simply lobotomized people she disagrees with.

    Loved how it showed that Jean could have become Phoenix even before the shuttle incident by simply being aware of it. She didn't need anything to fly into her from space. She has an innate connection to the Phoenix. She felt it from the beginning (of her powers? of her death? of this memory?) and as soon as she calls, it answered. She simply comes out with the power (as we saw her do in Morrison's New X-Men and other occasions).

    Of course thanks to Classic X-Men, X-Men The Hidden Years, X-Men First Class, and Teen Jean--- Jean has had dealings with the Phoenix and used the power before becoming Phoenix on the shuttle.

    Loved seeing Jean being a mutant leader even if straying from Xavier's vision for a while. She learned some valuable lessons.

    Jean declaring "we are one" when she asserted her Phoenix power is a line she used in Inferno after absorbing Phoenix and Maddie.

    Next issue deals with Jean making a different decision during the shuttle incident and the 3rd issue is about her making a different decision while fighting with Maddie (which ended in her absorbing Phoenix and Maddie). The final issue solicitation mentions the flames getting brighter and the cover has her reaching out for the Phoenix. So this definitely seems to be a Phoenix story for her whether she embraces the power at the end or not. And seems like it will deal with other aspects of her character such as her leadership role in mutantdom and her powers.

    Interestingly enough, Jean was given the opportunity to go back to the shuttle incident and make a different choice in the 2001 X-Men Forever mini and at that time she decided to choose the Phoenix as she had done initially.

    Also, I have always loved X-Factor Jean. Even with the annoying Phoenix denials (which mostly just came across as simply denial), Jean was great during this era. She was strong willed and powerful. She could be fiery, but also empathetic and vulnerable. Her identity issues made her very introspective. I know some fans were worried because Louise wrote post-retcon Jean, but she also wrote some great hints during that time. She had Jean doing mysterious phoenix effects (like in x-factor 6). She had Apocalypse tell Jean that she had a spark in her that could grow to consume all. She had Destiny refer to Jean as a nexus of probabilities. She had Jean use the Phoenix to help save a planet from a Celestial in the Judgment War storyline. She has a great understanding of the character.
    I love everything about your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by emfrst View Post
    As usual, the Great Jean Grey & her coping mechanism r worlds apart comparing to Emma
    Actually, she acted more like Emma during this issue, rewriting minds left and right, than ever before. At least she didn't abuse any children or get any women raped in the process...

    And stop pitting them against one another, especially when Emma hardly has a moral high ground to stand on. (You see what you reduce me to? Phoenix unleashed...) They are both flawed, complex, powerful women who have exhibited heroism and immorality. Let us enjoy them instead of forcing me to get all fiery, truthful, and offensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    I enjoyed this - I wasn't blown away but I thought both the writing and the art made for a good reading. It's fun to revisit moments from Jean's history with a spin and Jean's first encounter with the Phoenix and Inferno should make for fertile ground for alternate takes in the coming issues.

    I'm ready to be surprised but I see this mini being basically a series of What If's until the last issue reconnects to the present and leads into Jean's return on Immortal X-Men - if the writing remains as entertaining as on this I'm happy with the setup even though it's not the strongest of concepts admittedly.
    I think what some people are missing by categorizing this as simply a "series of What If's" is that, unlike those stories, these imagined (or created?) alternate realities will have a lasting impact on modern-day Jean, and the miniseries itself will likely reveal how and why she will emerge in the pages of Immortal X-Men #17. Moreover, as I intimated, we don't yet know where Jean is or how she is able to sift through alternate timelines and see them to their fateful outcomes. Is Simonson slowly elucidating what she meant when she wrote Destiny categorizing Jean as "a nexus of probabilities"? Is this a new aspect of her power and abilities? And is this aspect separate from or intrinsically tied to her identity as Phoenix?

    No, this is more than just a series of "What If...?" stories. It's a story central to Jean's current development and upcoming role in Fall of X wrapped in a series of "What If...?"'s and tied with a big mystery of a bow.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  15. #30
    Spectacular Member SugarMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixStudies View Post
    Of course she may actually be testing and burning away possible timelines. Have to wait and see.

    I do think she is really interacting with the Phoenix power though (and not just imagining it).

    If she’s not in the WHR, she may even be in one of those artificial environments the Phoenix created, like in Ressurrection. But I really get the impression there’s more going on. The Phoenix is heavily involved, that much is clear.

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