How much longer do you guys think before the marriage is back for good?

[clonegeek]

I still have a sliver of hope that the Peter/MJ marriage will permanatly come back to the main titles so I'm just curious how much longer you guys think we will have to wait.

[Venomsaurus]

I feel like there was a thread discussing this about a month or so ago.

Honestly it's really hard to speculate about such a thing. If it wasn't for the Nick Spencer run I'd be A LOT more negative overall in the thought process. But that run came SO DANG close to not just undoing OMD, but really making a grander statement about the importance of the marriage/MJ romance to Peter's life. That moment teasing a Mayday in the far off future being the death of Mephisto? Chef's freaking Kiss my dudes. It gives me a lot more hope than I'd have otherwise, even if Marvel put the kaibosh on it. That they came that close at all shows an overall shifting tide that I think will, hopefully, lead to a better tomorrow where the marriage is restored and NEVER touched again.

[Tuck]

They'll bring it back the day after the last person stops caring.

[Matt14teg]

Heat death of the universe

[ARkadelphia]

It will never be brought back for good

[Alex_Of_X]

Yea not looking likely, I'd say. It would take for what Marvel is now to ship-of-Theseus itself into being a different company with different edicts, AND THEN decide it's a cool idea.

The guys currently at the helm of Spidey--Lowe and Wells--were both born in the late 70s, and were teens right as the Clone Saga was the new hotness. I don't think it's a coincidence that under Lowe you've had both NuJackal, PAD's Scarlet Spider and Chasm--dude clearly is passionate about Ben\agreeable to writers who seek to feature the character, a far cry to Ben being basically deYEETed from canon after PP:SM #75.

In a way, Lowe\Spencer shot their shot into making a modern version of the Micheline\DeMatteis years. I don't think they're chomping at the bit to do more of that--otherwise we'd see it on the page.

Hmm, maybe when mid to late-80s talent are in charge--people who've imprinted onto JMS--we'll see another shot at this. The Cates\Rosenberg\Brisson\MacKay\Thompson\Lewis Millennial industrial complex. But the thing about them is, they had counter-programming in Ultimate Spider-Man! So they may lean into that instead: a younger, leaner Peter navigating relationships with different women (MJ, Kitty, Gwen, etc). And even here, the EIC will have to green-light this approach.

IMHO, within the next 10 years we'll have a MJ\Peter focused major run with a Millennial zest. Don't think they'll remarry tho

[Mister Mets]

As I said in another thread, it's not about a time frame as much as editorial and others thinking it makes long-term sense. Or if they think preserving the 616 universe doesn't matter.

[Tuck]

Or if they think preserving the 616 universe doesn't matter.

They'll cling to 616 until it's so structurally unsound that the only profitable move is to burn it for the insurance money.

[clonegeek]

As I said in another thread, it's not about a time frame as much as editorial and others thinking it makes long-term sense. Or if they think preserving the 616 universe doesn't matter.

Or maybe they just realize that they just making it harder on themselves by keeping OMD intact.

[Garlador]

My stance on this is that the marriage will return one day. There is just too much demand for it and too many hardcore fans who will never let it go for it to be permanently off the table.

However, there are a lot of factors at play preventing it from happening anytime soon. Well, actually, let me back that up. There is ONE factor at play: Marvel leadership.

1) We know "Marvel" is currently opposed to the marriage.
2) It once was considered a mandate. Recently, it was described as an editorial preference and not something carved in stone.
3) We know that editors like Brevoort just a few months ago quadrupled down on One More Day and was claiming DC's decision to restore Superman's marriage was a sign of them "blinking" to fan demand, something they don't want to do.
4) We know Slott has mentioned that you don't get to write for the book unless you're onboard with that and "understand the assignment".
5) We know some writers literally are refusing to write for ASM because they don't think they can satisfy the fans right now.
6) Despite criticism, Spider-Man is still a brand strong enough to sell on name-value alone, so sales haven't fallen to a point that is causing Marvel to panic.
7) It was also stated that sales were never the reason the marriage went away in the first place, as many of the best-selling, most republished stories in Spider-Man history are marriage era stories.
8) The popularity and wide acceptance of Spider-Dad and Mayday in the Spider-Verse movies has helped with normalizing that kind of growth with the general audience.
9) DC continues to have enormous success leveraging married and romantic shows and comics focusing on their iconic couples. "Lois & Clark" literally headline two concurrent TV shows right now with their relationship front and center.
10) The vocal demand for the marriage coming back is going the opposite way that Marvel predicted; more people are asking for it over time, not less, and that includes post-BND and younger readers growing tired of the same cycles Peter has been stuck in over 16 years.
11) Since OMD, Marvel has had 16 years to win fans over with a rotating cast of female faces for Peter to fall in love with and win readers over. The only person that clicked with readers since then has been... Mary Jane.
12) The most excited I've seen Spidey readers in YEARS was the speculation that Spencer was building towards undoing OMD. The most disappointed I've seen Spidey readers in years was when that didn't happen, and what the current run did instead for maximum whiplash.
13) The current reputation of the book is at an all-time low. There's no getting around it. From complaints about lack of growth to much more hostile accusations of racism and sexism towards its characters, the book is currently a hate-sink for jaded readers.

There is precisely one obstacle for the marriage, and that's Marvel leadership. I don't know if that's Lowe, Cebulski, Bog Iger himself, a robot Joe Quesada holding them at gunpoint, the ghost of Steve Dikto... it doesn't matter. Someone who can call the shot isn't calling the shot.

That's the problem DC had too, until leadership CHANGED. Characters like Wally West and Nightwing are thriving now, where before you had folks like Dan Didio on record wishing those characters would outright die or be erased from continuity.

So basically one of two things needs to happen; leadership needs to change, or current leadership needs to change their minds. Given the interviews and statements made over 16 years, it doesn't sound like Spidey leadership is softening, and the criticism and backlash seems to be bothering them to the point of digging their feet in the ground on the matter. So unless they're visited by three ghosts this Christmas (bonus points if it's the ghosts of Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, and Mayday Parker...), the only path forward is leadership change-up.

So when does that happen? Who knows? It could be as abruptly as next week, or they could stick around another thirty years. I know that this is one of the longest durations for Spider-Man without a substantial change in leadership ideology, however.

But it'll happen. Not today. Not this month. Not this year.

But one day.

[Yvonmukluk]

As I said in another thread, it's not about a time frame as much as editorial and others thinking it makes long-term sense. Or if they think preserving the 616 universe doesn't matter.

I don’t think bringing the marriage back is going to somehow unmake the 616.

[Spider-Tiger]

Right now it just feels as though they're postponing the inevitable. And drawing a line in the sand against fans based on principle alone. Will it come back "for good"? I can't say. But I do think it will come back to the main continuity for another stretch of time. Perhaps even within the decade.

[marhawkman]

Heat death of the universe

or death of Marvel as an IP?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Within 10 years. I haven't changed my mind on that.

I think by 2033 it will be back, but that's a liberal estimate. It wouldn't surprise me if it was back by late 2020's or ASM#1000.

My stance on this is that the marriage will return one day. There is just too much demand for it and too many hardcore fans who will never let it go for it to be permanently off the table.

However, there are a lot of factors at play preventing it from happening anytime soon. Well, actually, let me back that up. There is ONE factor at play: Marvel leadership.

1) We know "Marvel" is currently opposed to the marriage.
2) It once was considered a mandate. Recently, it was described as an editorial preference and not something carved in stone.
3) We know that editors like Brevoort just a few months ago quadrupled down on One More Day and was claiming DC's decision to restore Superman's marriage was a sign of them "blinking" to fan demand, something they don't want to do.
4) We know Slott has mentioned that you don't get to write for the book unless you're onboard with that and "understand the assignment".
5) We know some writers literally are refusing to write for ASM because they don't think they can satisfy the fans right now.
6) Despite criticism, Spider-Man is still a brand strong enough to sell on name-value alone, so sales haven't fallen to a point that is causing Marvel to panic.
7) It was also stated that sales were never the reason the marriage went away in the first place, as many of the best-selling, most republished stories in Spider-Man history are marriage era stories.
8) The popularity and wide acceptance of Spider-Dad and Mayday in the Spider-Verse movies has helped with normalizing that kind of growth with the general audience.
9) DC continues to have enormous success leveraging married and romantic shows and comics focusing on their iconic couples. "Lois & Clark" literally headline two concurrent TV shows right now with their relationship front and center.
10) The vocal demand for the marriage coming back is going the opposite way that Marvel predicted; more people are asking for it over time, not less, and that includes post-BND and younger readers growing tired of the same cycles Peter has been stuck in over 16 years.
11) Since OMD, Marvel has had 16 years to win fans over with a rotating cast of female faces for Peter to fall in love with and win readers over. The only person that clicked with readers since then has been... Mary Jane.
12) The most excited I've seen Spidey readers in YEARS was the speculation that Spencer was building towards undoing OMD. The most disappointed I've seen Spidey readers in years was when that didn't happen, and what the current run did instead for maximum whiplash.
13) The current reputation of the book is at an all-time low. There's no getting around it. From complaints about lack of growth to much more hostile accusations of racism and sexism towards its characters, the book is currently a hate-sink for jaded readers.

There is precisely one obstacle for the marriage, and that's Marvel leadership. I don't know if that's Lowe, Cebulski, Bog Iger himself, a robot Joe Quesada holding them at gunpoint, the ghost of Steve Dikto... it doesn't matter. Someone who can call the shot isn't calling the shot.

That's the problem DC had too, until leadership CHANGED. Characters like Wally West and Nightwing are thriving now, where before you had folks like Dan Didio on record wishing those characters would outright die or be erased from continuity.

So basically one of two things needs to happen; leadership needs to change, or current leadership needs to change their minds. Given the interviews and statements made over 16 years, it doesn't sound like Spidey leadership is softening, and the criticism and backlash seems to be bothering them to the point of digging their feet in the ground on the matter. So unless they're visited by three ghosts this Christmas (bonus points if it's the ghosts of Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, and Mayday Parker...), the only path forward is leadership change-up.

So when does that happen? Who knows? It could be as abruptly as next week, or they could stick around another thirty years. I know that this is one of the longest durations for Spider-Man without a substantial change in leadership ideology, however.

But it'll happen. Not today. Not this month. Not this year.

But one day.

It's not going to take another 30 years. It's only Brevoort, Cebulski and Lowe that are standing in the way.

[Mister Mets]

I don’t think bringing the marriage back is going to somehow unmake the 616.

Not immediately. The question is whether it will allow for another 1,500+ issues of comics.