How much longer do you guys think before the marriage is back for good?

[Tuck]

The marriage from everything I’ve seen isn’t a reason the clone saga got as bad as it did. The clone saga went bad because they stretched the storyline out far too long. Not to mention a plethora of other factors.

The Clone Saga only exists because it was an attempt to write the marriage out of the book. No marriage, no Clone Saga.

[Garlador]

The Clone Saga only exists because it was an attempt to write the marriage out of the book. No marriage, no Clone Saga.

They attempted to write PETER PARKER out of the book. It wouldn’t have worked, marriage or not. Try it in the BND era with full sincerity and you’d get the same backlash.

… Instead, they birthed the longest female-led superhero run in Marvel’s whole history with Spider-Girl, her dad and mom happily married and still getting caught up in superhero nonsense to our joy and entertainment.

[Tuck]

They attempted to write PETER PARKER out of the book. It wouldn’t have worked, marriage or not. Try it in the BND era with full sincerity and you’d get the same backlash.

… Instead, they birthed the longest female-led superhero run in Marvel’s whole history with Spider-Girl, her dad and mom happily married and still getting caught up in superhero nonsense to our joy and entertainment.

Mets's point was that the Clone Saga was an attempt to reverse the marriage long before OMD.

It being a lousy story is neither here nor there in that respect.

[Majesty]

When Peter is immortally 27. Like Superman.

[Mister Mets]

The Clone Saga ironically brought them MUCH closer together, the plane bomb was widely mocked and quickly retconned (and it took place a whopping 13 years AFTER their marriage issue), and separation was a blip, with neither character remotely being happy apart. Not a very compelling argument.

Sue and Reed have had more dramatic separations and setbacks, yet nobody says Marvel was actively trying to ruin their marriage.


Legit asking, but I stated earlier that EVERY argument used against the marriage was used for The Flash.

… Wally got his marriage back.

So I would like to know why the argument worked for Wally, but not Peter.

What works for Peter may not work for Wally.

Wally has pretty much calcified in to a family man given how the Geoff Johns/ Scott Kolins run ended.

He also isn't as important a character. He doesn't always have a monthly title, while Spidey typically has at least three issues a month. DC has another speedster named Wally West.

[Kevinroc]

What works for Peter may not work for Wally.

Wally has pretty much calcified in to a family man given how the Geoff Johns/ Scott Kolins run ended.

He also isn't as important a character. He doesn't always have a monthly title, while Spidey typically has at least three issues a month. DC has another speedster named Wally West.

Marvel literally has another Spider-Man. Who is also a teenager.

[Mister Mets]

Why are you assuming that person doesn’t exist?




The argument has been made a bazillion times right here on this forum. Stan Lee and Jim Shooter made the argument. It’s been made ever since the Clone Saga and quite probably ever since Peter Parker was conceived and revealed to be of an age to be interested in forming long term romantic attachments.

Want a published argument? Kraven’s Last Hunt. Take away the marriage, take away MJ, and it’s just another grim dark edgelord fest and why every homage since has failed, including the one we’re about to get.

I didn't assume the person doesn't exist. A few people here were bothered by the idea that someone needs to make the case that more than a decade of comics about Peter and MJ as parents of kids too young to be nepo baby superheroes (or another decade as a consistently childless couple) is compelling.

[Garlador]

Marvel literally has another Spider-Man. Who is also a teenager.

They just announced another…

…Who’s a 10 year old child.

[Daibhidh]

A few people here were bothered by the idea that someone needs to make the case that more than a decade of comics about Peter and MJ as parents of kids too young to be nepo baby superheroes (or another decade as a consistently childless couple) is compelling.

Why should it be more of a problem for storytelling that a couple is consistently childless than that a single man is childless? Not all couples start families straight away or at all. I feel the marriage is being asked to meet arbitrary standards that single Peter is not.

[TinkerSpider]

I didn't assume the person doesn't exist. A few people here were bothered by the idea that someone needs to make the case that more than a decade of comics about Peter and MJ as parents of kids too young to be nepo baby superheroes (or another decade as a consistently childless couple) is compelling.

Because the "case" is the definition of straw man. It's some arbitrary boundary that's been superimposed. Peter Parker isn't compelling now, and he's single. Prove that this status quo is more "compelling" when we are on our second snippy lawyer Michelle. They can't apparently even come up with an alternate apparent love interest type (or name LOL) and have to repeat. Meanwhile, manga is dominating a market that used to belong to superheroes.

What makes me laugh while scratching my head is this apparent insistence - ossified into copralite by longserving Editorial - that a certain status quo equals "quality" or even "longevity," while wholly ignoring stoytelling doesn't work that way.

JMS's run (married) is nearly consistently & universally considered to be a superior example of storytelling craft to Zeb Wells's run (single).

Roger Stern's run (single) is nearly consistently & universally considered to be a superior example of storytelling craft to Howard Mackie's run (married).

To paraphrase James Carville: "It's the storytelling, stupid."

Whether a story is compelling or not has nothing to do with status quo and everything to do with storytelling craft.

[clonegeek]

Because the "case" is the definition of straw man. It's some arbitrary boundary that's been superimposed. Peter Parker isn't compelling now, and he's single. Prove that this status quo is more "compelling" when we are on our second snippy lawyer Michelle. They can't apparently even come up with an alternate apparent love interest type (or name LOL) and have to repeat. Meanwhile, manga is dominating a market that used to belong to superheroes.

What makes me laugh while scratching my head is this apparent insistence - ossified into copralite by longserving Editorial - that a certain status quo equals "quality" or even "longevity," while wholly ignoring stoytelling doesn't work that way.

JMS's run (married) is nearly consistently & universally considered to be a superior example of storytelling craft to Zeb Wells's run (single).

Roger Stern's run (single) is nearly consistently & universally considered to be a superior example of storytelling craft to Howard Mackie's run (married).

To paraphrase James Carville: "It's the storytelling, stupid."

Crafting a compelling story has nothing to do with status quo and everything to do with storytelling craft.

Marvel and the comic book industry as a whole really needs fresh blood in the editorial and the rest of the higher ups. I mean not the same people being shuffled around as well.

[Mister Mets]

Marvel literally has another Spider-Man. Who is also a teenager.

Peter Parker is my favorite character in comics and fans of Miles don't claim he's interchangeable with Peter. A high school age Peter doesn't work in a Marvel Universe where his villains have been strong long enough to have spinoff, but a Peter Parker in his 20s can accommodate that.

[Garlador]

Peter Parker is my favorite character in comics and fans of Miles don't claim he's interchangeable with Peter. A high school age Peter doesn't work in a Marvel Universe where his villains have been strong long enough to have spinoff, but a Peter Parker in his 20s can accommodate that.

You say that... but I absolutely bet that someone has pitched de-aging Spider-Man in the 616 through magic, retcon, time travel, clone rebirth, body-swap, or something else back into a high school teen. It wouldn't even be the first time Marvel has done it. It rarely sticks, but I can count a dozen times a prominent character got de-aged or replaced with their younger self.



Marvel leadership might currently be more inclined to literally reset him like so many other characters back to the very start before they ever swallow their pride and let him get his marriage and family back.

But it belabors the point, I think, which is that Peter isn't a spry young chicken by most comparisons to other heroes these days. The above panel has The Champions dragging Nova for being "old", and he's younger than Peter is!

[WebLurker]

What works for Peter may not work for Wally.

Wally has pretty much calcified in to a family man given how the Geoff Johns/ Scott Kolins run ended.

He also isn't as important a character. He doesn't always have a monthly title, while Spidey typically has at least three issues a month. DC has another speedster named Wally West.

And there's more than a fair case that Spider-Man had "calcified" into what he is before the OMD reboot. Heck, the OMD comics are incredibly anti-brand when compared to the franchise as a whole.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

With how comics run I doubt the marriage will ever return indefinetly, there will always come a chief that decides it's time to annule it.

I think making him date Kitty Pryde and eventually marrying her is more likely than Pete and MJ ever reuniting. She's currently aged enough to be nearly as old as Peter, unless they de-aged her again and I'm not aware of it.