Bringing Back a Married Spider-Man - The Official Appeal - Which do you Renew?

[TinkerSpider]

There's a comment in response to the Perch video that may get to Slott's point on positivity.

"My biggest problem with the whole situation is that Marvel keeps trolling the fanbase by teasing an undoing of OMD only to pull the rug over and over. I think they're doing it because they think people are sticking around to see if it happens."

That type of attitude would encourage Marvel to go in the other direction, if they think they'll get a negative reaction from anything that's halfway supportive of the spider-marriage because it doesn't go far enough.

They have the reaction to the Wells run.

[Garlador]

Glad to know.

The main problem is that Marvel have to stop trying to lie us with the myth that "time doesn's pass on comics". Please, Spider-Man is almost as old as Superman and Batman, and they have ended up having their own kids.

Time pass for us readers, so it's impossible for us to keep identify ourselves with a character who doesn't evolve through the years. Time pass, and Marvel can't keep denying it. I mean, they didn't back in the old days. Peter graduated from College, he had relationships with Betty Brant and Liz Allan (which nobody remember anymore).... Come on, a real life is not one who stays unchanged.

This is definitely going to be part of the campaign and proposal.

Time IS passing in comics. Peter CAN'T stay this "young, carefree, single dude" forever, especially as those around him age and grow up and get married and start families and leave him behind. His best friend Harry has a 10 year old son. His classmate Jessica Jones is a mom now. Cyclops started off in high school at the same time as Peter, and he's basically treated like a grown man and leader with multiple marriages and kids now. I'm not saying Peter needs to just jump right to baby-making, but a TON of major, prominent, and prolific superheroes have now become parents at some point.

(just a sample)

All of the Big 3 at DC are now in the "parent" stage of their lives. Two out of three of Marvel's "big 3" are at that stage (Hulk and Wolverine). The current former-Teen Titans line-up has HALF its roster at that stage (Donna, Garth, and Wally).

The argument against it is holding less water as kids and readers are not less inclined to read about a married Superman as they were a single one (and MULTIPLE shows have now leaned into that relationship). Kids don't seem to be turned off by their heroes becoming married, or parents, or GRANDparents (grandpa Goku in Dragon Ball Super seems to be doing JUST fine with viewers).

The inevitable march of time just keeps happening, and the longer Peter stays frozen in his current status quo - one mandated by a wildly unpopular retcon - the more he'll stand out like a sore thumb, especially as we have YOUNGER heroes like The Champions rising up as the new generation.

(Richard Rider's Nova is YOUNGER than Peter, btw).

It's beyond time Peter was treated as fairly as all these other heroes and allowed to grow and reclaim the family life he worked so hard pursuing, don't you think?

[Vortex85]

It's beyond time Peter was treated as fairly as all these other heroes and allowed to grow and reclaim the family life he worked so hard pursuing, don't you think?

Oh yes, absolutely. I think there are a lot of people out there who see and think that. The excuse of Peter Parker being single makes "better stories" died off a long time ago. The stories moved past it decades ago and going back to exact same feel as the pre-marriage/OMD Spidey is never going to happen... it would take a mind wipe in a fandom with social media, constant access to past stories, and knowledge of a long history that is never going away. That is because this is a comic book story with a fan expectation deeply imbedded in the mythos. That expectation and lore did not exist before the marriage, but it does exist AFTER the marriage. The post-OMD era is very different than the pre-marriage era, the character is not the same person. Too much knowledge exists now that you just can't undo.

Also, when you have younger Spider heroes who know fill that role like Miles Morales, there is little excuse to force Peter to fit in a role that no longer suits him as a character.

[Xenon]

Why is it a non-solution?

If you had a decent creative team getting okay sales on an alternate universe book, would you really care if it's not Amazing Spider-Man? Pretty soon, it would be building on its own continuity.

Of course, because it doesn't fix Amazing Spider-Man. Look end of the day I've got other hobbies and interests. My investment is large here but it's not infinite and I'll be ok. At some point if things continue down the current path Spider-Man will become like Star Wars has become for me, something I used to like and am disappointed in. But to the extent I'm invested in it I'd prefer if it course corrected and got better. And AU is not getting better, it's an AU. That one big grand story that Stan and Steve created and was fostered over decades by talents smart people who put forth effort and cared about the story, THAT'S what I want back. That's what I argue for because THAT is worth something. It was the best comic book in the business for decades and Joe Quesada and his co-conspirators ruined that. They made it lessor and forever worse. The damage they did can never fully be undone. But we can at least argue for that to come back. That's what it's always been about.

[Celgress]

Renew Your Vows is the best choice, IMHO. I prefer an MJ who is a main character rather than a supporting character. Renew Your Vows basically follows the tritagonists model; Peter, MJ, and Annie are all equally important to the plot, they are all stars of the story.

PS I'd like to see a universe with a younger version of Spidey and ‎Spinneret as a crime-fighting couple sans Annie or any other kids, at some point.

[Dan Slott]

They have the reaction to the Wells run.

Going by ICV2 numbers (not a 100% reliable metric, but the best one we've got), isn't the reaction to the Wells run-- by readers who vote AT the register-- that this is a Top Ten book, and usually the best selling book in the American comic book market?

[Mister Mets]

They have the reaction to the Wells run.

Yes, retailers keep ordering it.

Going by ICV2 numbers (not a 100% reliable metric, but the best one we've got), isn't the reaction to the Wells run-- by readers who vote AT the register-- that this is a Top Ten book, and usually the best selling book in the American comic book market?

Jinx.

[Dan Slott]

Owe me a Coke.

[TinkerSpider]

Going by ICV2 numbers (not a 100% reliable metric, but the best one we've got), isn't the reaction to the Wells run-- by readers who vote AT the register-- that this is a Top Ten book, and usually the best selling book in the American comic book market?

Funny, I don't see it anywhere on this list.

Or this list.

Or even a superhero specific list, which is the month ASM Vol 5 released. (Congrats on Spider-Man: End of Spider-Verse, by the way). (Very happy to see Jody Houser on the list, too.)

I'm positive Disney and Warner Discovery are aware of the overall size of the market.

I will confess I took reaction to mean public opinion, mea culpa. I'm happy to find the list of media reaction to ASM 26 should people need a refresher?

[DT Winslow]

Funny, I don't see it anywhere on this list.

Or this list.

Or even a superhero specific list (congrats on Spider-Man: End of Spider-Verse, by the way).

I'm positive Disney and Warner Discovery are aware of the overall size of the market.

I will confess I took reaction to mean public opinion, mea culpa. I'm happy to find the list of media reaction to ASM 26 should people need a refresher?

You are not stupid. But you are arguing something that is not what he said. Direct market sales matter first and foremost to Marvel and DC and Image and IDW and Boom and all the others. You know that.

[Matt14teg]

I kind of doubt you can ever get a fandom to drop being toxic, especially the spiderman fandom expectations is that mostly everyone is gonna persist this behavior till the end of wells run. Enraged fans = Engaged fans though, if that isn't a marketing tactic then marvel can denounce it in one statement.

[Dan Slott]

Funny, I don't see it anywhere...

Maybe this will help your eyesight then.

Marvel's best selling title in July: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...mics-july-2023
The American comic book industry's best selling title in June: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...mics-june-2023
Marvel's best selling title in May: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...omics-may-2023
The American comic book industry's best selling title in April: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...ics-april-2023
The American comic book industry's best selling title in March: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...ics-march-2023
The American comic book industry's best selling title in February: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...-february-2023
The American comic book industry's best selling title in January: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...s-january-2023
Marvel's best selling title that was not a new #1 in December: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...-december-2022
Marvel's best selling title in November: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...-november-2022
Marvel's best selling title that was not a new #1 in October: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...s-october-2022
Marvel's best selling title in September: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...september-2022
Marvel's best selling title that was not a new #1 in August: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...cs-august-2022
Marvel's best selling title that was not a new #1 in July: https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/...mics-july-2022

A year should do it, right? We could keep going, but I'm about to grab some dinner.
(Also, the "Fire Nick Lowe" crowd should know that the very few times ASM wasn't the top selling title for Marvel... 4 out of 5 times the title that bumped it out of that spot was another book from Nick Lowe's unit... like SPIDER-MAN #1 and EDGE OF SPIDER-VERSE #1. So that's a little on my and my co-creators. Sorry.) ;-)

[TinkerSpider]

You are not stupid. But you are arguing something that is not what he said. Direct market sales matter first and foremost to Marvel and DC and Image and IDW and Boom and all the others. You know that.

You’re right, and thanks for calling me on it. But I still think it’s a point worth making. The direct market is just a subset of the overall US (and worldwide) market for comics, graphic novels and manga.

No one loves crunching numbers more than Disney. They know that.

[GeorgiaDawg]

Spider-girl was supposed to be the original progression of Peter and Mary-Jane. (at least as far as the pitch goes). I always really enjoyed it, I recently read renew your vows on Marvel Unlimited. I liked the ideas in it but It didn't seem as good when they aged their daughter. Spider-Girl feels like a good Spider-man comic with all the familiar faces.

[Mister Mets]

I kind of doubt you can ever get a fandom to drop being toxic, especially the spiderman fandom expectations is that mostly everyone is gonna persist this behavior till the end of wells run. Enraged fans = Engaged fans though, if that isn't a marketing tactic then marvel can denounce it in one statement.

People online could call out toxic behavior on their side.

Comic book fans should have a higher sense of morals. We should ask what would Spidey do? And he wouldn't go for bad-faith arguments or insults.