Firestorm vs. Iceman

[nj06]

Who wins in battle between these heroes? Assume Bobby fights Ronnie and Jason in two separate and unrelated battle scenarios. Which of the two can he defeat, if any?

Location: begins in abandoned NYC

Fight 1: Bobby vs. Ronnie
Fight 2: Bobby vs. Jason

Can Bobby's omega-level mutant powers give him the victory? Or can the power of the Firestorm Matrix save either Ronnie or Jason?

[Sharkerbob]

As beefy as Bobby has gotten, powerwise, I don't think he has anything to actually stop Firestorm from transmuting all his molecules into lead or chlorine or whathaveyou.

Somewhat equally, though, I don't know if Firestorm is totally resistant to being flash-frozen or ice-blocked, so it might be kind of a quickdraw? I think Bobby's freeze effects would take more time to do the damage than Firestorm can convert him.

[nj06]

If Firestorm transmutes Bobby to lead, can Bobby create another ice body for himself?

[choptop]

Isn't iceman like a god or something now?

[Captain Morgan]

Isn't iceman like a god or something now?

He's pretty godly, yes. But a lot of that is how impossible he is to kill when his consciousness is spread over every water molecule on the planet. Firestorm, however, does stuff like wave his hands and give Mars a breathable atmosphere. He's one of the only heroes in comics with a pretty hard counter to Bobby's immortality.

[Sophicles]

Really a matter of who gets off the first hit on the other.

Iceman is really powerful these days, and I believe can even freeze time with his powers... so I'm leaning towards him likely landing the first hit.

[nj06]

He's pretty godly, yes. But a lot of that is how impossible he is to kill when his consciousness is spread over every water molecule on the planet. Firestorm, however, does stuff like wave his hands and give Mars a breathable atmosphere. He's one of the only heroes in comics with a pretty hard counter to Bobby's immortality.

Do you have a scan of this? Or the issue number? That sounds pretty dope and I would actually like to see that.

Really a matter of who gets off the first hit on the other.

Iceman is really powerful these days, and I believe can even freeze time with his powers... so I'm leaning towards him likely landing the first hit.

He did stop time when fighting against a portion of the Black Winter I believe, but I don't think it's something he's done consistently. It also didn't seem like it was an instant thing, but rather it took him a moment to build up to it (however I could be misremembering).

[Captain Morgan]

Do you have a scan of this? Or the issue number? That sounds pretty dope and I would actually like to see that.



He did stop time when fighting against a portion of the Black Winter I believe, but I don't think it's something he's done consistently. It also didn't seem like it was an instant thing, but rather it took him a moment to build up to it (however I could be misremembering).

I tried unsuccessfully to find scans, but I think it is Doomsday Clock issue 8 or 9. It's a good example of how to establish a villain, because Firestorm and the four present Green Lanterns both do planetary scale shenanigans in the same issue they get wrecked by the threat.

[nj06]

I tried unsuccessfully to find scans, but I think it is Doomsday Clock issue 8 or 9. It's a good example of how to establish a villain, because Firestorm and the four present Green Lanterns both do planetary scale shenanigans in the same issue they get wrecked by the threat.

I will definitely look into that and thanks again for the info.

Do you think Bobby's chances at victory will be greater if he's fighting Jason as opposed to Ronnie?

[Captain Morgan]

I will definitely look into that and thanks again for the info.

Do you think Bobby's chances at victory will be greater if he's fighting Jason as opposed to Ronnie?

Not really. IIRC Jason was just as powerful as Ronnie. He just didn't know how to use the powers as effectively, mostly because he didn't have Professor Stein for a large portion of his early days. But "turn H20 into something else" is such a basic use of the power that I can't see lack of finesse mattering. Still just seems like a quick draw.

[Alan2099]

I'm going to have to give this one to Firestorm.

While Iceman can pretty much do anything as long as he puts the words "cold" or "water" in the description, Firestorm can pretty much do anything as long as it somehow has molecules which I feel is a somewhat larger category of things.

[Beadle]

Bobby can separate his consciousness from his standard form and move it to other nearby water, right? Regardless of whether the water he is occupying is transmuted?

So he could just relocate to… for example… Firestorm’s blood? Then make himself a new body from that?

[Alan2099]

Bobby can separate his consciousness from his standard form and move it to other nearby water, right? Regardless of whether the water he is occupying is transmuted?

So he could just relocate to… for example… Firestorm’s blood? Then make himself a new body from that?

I might be mistaken, but I don't think he can simply be a disembody consciousness. I think his mind can still exist in water vapor form, but I think there still needs to be water (or some kind of ice) for him to exist.

[Fallman]

Also, does Firestorm have blood while transformed? I don't recall the presence or absence of blood being specifically addressed, but I think that he's actually some kind of energy being.

[Beadle]

I might be mistaken, but I don't think he can simply be a disembody consciousness. I think his mind can still exist in water vapor form, but I think there still needs to be water (or some kind of ice) for him to exist.

Also, does Firestorm have blood while transformed? I don't recall the presence or absence of blood being specifically addressed, but I think that he's actually some kind of energy being.

In that case, colour me corrected.