Originally Posted by
Vakanai
Okay, thinking about it, I think it's a few things, most of which has been said here - fans not liking when he's pushed too far from "consensus", Donner, can't support as many books too experiment, etc. But a lot of it I think is lack of popularity among the powers that be, which stop two big things from happening - cartoons and Elseworlds.
Think about it, BTAS, The Batman, B:TBatB, Beware the Batman - all different from each other, all doing something unique from the ones that came before. What series did Superman get okayed throughout that same time span? STAS, basically BTAS but with Superman and frankly without the care or passion, and LoSH where was just the lead of an ensemble team. Yeah. Only now nearly 30 years after STAS are we getting a solo cartoon, and look at it - love it like I do or hate it MAWS is completely different from we've seen before, just like all the Batman cartoons were different. Animated series are huge for helping adapt characters to the times, the generation, and just making them more flexible. Imagine where we'd be if Superman had as many modern cartoons as Batman? Add two more Superman series to the past couple decades with all the variations they bring and we might have a more flexible image of old Clark. MAWS is a step in the right direction, but man is it soooo late! It shouldn't be the first Supes cartoon in a generation, it should be like the third or something.
And not just cartoon series either, movies. Sure, the mainline DTVs have Superman movies, even if less than Batman, and as much as I don't like the movies in the Tomorrow-verse since MoT that one was a darn good take on Clark/Supes, but wow there's not that many and they fly through the radar - plus, the mainline films are kinda set towards a specific fan. They don't do much to expand the brand. It's the unexpected DTVs that fall outside that line that shakes things up. Batman Ninja, love it or hate it, a crazy big anime movie that goes all out and throws everything the medium has at it is a hell of a big pitch that shows Batman as a flexible character - Superman needs some kind of crazy out there anime. Batman's teamed up with Scooby Doo, imagine if Superman was in some cartoony Scooby Doo crossover. Batman's teamed up with the Ninja Turtles, who has Superman teamed up with in a DTV? Nobody, he doesn't get these kind of outside the standard line DTVs. Batman Unlimited, three PG Batman movies teaming up with Flash, Cyborg, Green Arrow, and members of the Batfam tackling on big DC villains, all to sell some toyline (which wasn't even a success, but the films were pretty good). Superman needs a couple PG films teaming up with popular heroes getting a push (remember during Batman Unlimited both Flash and GA had successful CW films, and though it went nowhere WB was set to really push Cyborg).
We need cartoon series and more varied and out there DTV films.
Outside of animation the next thing I mentioned was Elseworlds. Yeah, sure, Superman like Batman had a bunch of them back in the 90s. But that's where they've stayed, in the 90s. Look at Batman, Azzarello´s Joker helped shape the vision for Heath Ledger's take, The White Knight was successful enough to kick off the Black Label imprint, the TMNT crossover Elseworlds was big enough to get that DTV movie made, and those are just the successes - there's so many of them, most unimportant, but they all take chances. What's Superman got? That I can name from the past couple decades, just two. But look at those two - All Star and Smashes the Klan, two of the very best Superman books. Out of continuity books are hugely important, because even if they don't affect the never ending narrative so many fans take special stock in, they affect what the character can be, what they can do, the image others can form of them - in other words, it makes them flexible.
Animation and out of continuity tales are what expand a character in the pop zeitgeist, and that channels back into the main books and even Hollywood films. I don't know why Superman wasn't as popular 20 to 30 years ago when this all started, when they started not giving him cartoons and not giving him more Elseworlds. I assume it was just a few people in the wrong positions of power at the time - Bruce Timm was a Batman fanboy, so STAS wasn't a high priority. And he had a big say in the early mainline DTV stuff, so Supes was shunted a bit. But it can't be all on him. But I know why he's not as popular now - because he wasn't given a cartoon 20 years ago, because he doesn't have his own Superman Ninja or Unlimited or meets Scooby Doo, because and I'm just realizing it now, he doesn't have an Arkham Asylum, his most famous videogame makes him the bad guy! So elseworlds, animation, and videogames. Those are the 3 pillars of pop culture you need if you want to get popular. Live action films too but lets be honest, if you ain't got a handle on the other 3 you ain't getting people invested in making an awesome live action film.
MAWS is a good start. MoT was alright. But we need a lock on another cartoon for when MAWS finally comes to an end. We need more DTVs covering all ages, PG and PG13. We need at least one or two elseworld stories a year. We definitely need a videogame where Supes is the main good guy. Do that, and this firm unshakeable image of Superman will start to crack, and we'll see him develop more flexibility, or rather will see writers develop some flexibility when writing him.