How would you bring back the New 52?

[Refrax5]

I really enjoyed t-shirt and jeans Superman. I love Golden Age and Earth 2 Superman so having a modernized version of him was a blast. I also loved Robinson's Earth 2 before Taylor demolished it. It's not a substitute for the classic JSA, but I love the idea of a world where the original Golden Age heroes get to be updated and modernized like the Silver Agers did. It was kind of cool to see a world where Alan, Jay and Kendra were young, modern, A-list heroes. I really loved those three and their burgeoning comraderie. Alan was a huge badass and Jay was just so lovable. Ugh. I miss that series.

[Thor-Ul]

I really enjoyed t-shirt and jeans Superman. I love Golden Age and Earth 2 Superman so having a modernized version of him was a blast. I also loved Robinson's Earth 2 before Taylor demolished it. It's not a substitute for the classic JSA, but I love the idea of a world where the original Golden Age heroes get to be updated and modernized like the Silver Agers did. It was kind of cool to see a world where Alan, Jay and Kendra were young, modern, A-list heroes. I really loved those three and their burgeoning comraderie. Alan was a huge badass and Jay was just so lovable. Ugh. I miss that series.

I think most people who liked that series lieked it more for the world building than anything. Then Taylor came and transform it into Injustice lite. Also, did anyone else noted than in Earth 2 Taylor basically used a lot of ideas from the Flashpoint world to demolish earth 2?
I would liked to see the ideas than Robinson had for the series. What really was the iea for the Red lantern, what was going to be Infinity Inc and so. But alas, Taylor screw everything.

[Stanlos]

He had a character who finally was fixed and he did his utmost to screw it. I am glad as well his era is over, not that I am pleased with how things are at DC currently.




Aquaman was never lame, however the general perception was such, even among a good percentage of comic book readers. You still find prejudiced readers against Aquaman. We cannot deny that.

Even the edgy Aquaman of PAD did not shake off the undeserved bad reputation. Also before N52 Aquaman had undergone so many alterations that it was not clear which was the definite one. Was he the son of Tom Curry or of some Atlantean wizard? Was he half Atlantean or not? N52 gave the opportunity to go back to a more traditional Aquaman, younger and de-traumatized. Johns approach to shut up detractors was going head on to silence them about those silly jokes. It worked.
Aquaman never enjoyed such a success in comics. At one point outselling all Marvel books and even more established DC characters. As someone who has been reading Aquaman for a long time It was unthinkable that it could be achieved before N52.
I was not a fan of N52 in general, but with Aquaman it did right, pity they did their utmost at DC to undo all the good that it did.
Just look at Aquaman nowadays, he is back to the preN52 days, they don't have an idea what to do with him. The character that has the highest grossing movie for DC can't have a comic.

I was about to be all emotional and launch into a How Dare You style protest when I recall revisiting the Wizard JLA special recently. That was during the height of PAD's run and, loathe as I am to admit it, you are 100% right. Even there Morrison is asked how he will make Orin useful on land. Then I recalled a CBG article I read where PAD talked about challenges he faced during the run as well as 6 -7 directions he would have taken had his run continued. Interestingly, he references the presence of those pop culture pressures and a number of the options were tailored to respond to them.

Sigh

I don't like that. But I gotta say Geoff wasn't in left field with the Try-Hard-ness of his New 52 run. I wonder if that is also the mindset for TPTB's choices for other nontraditional properties.

Either way, whether I am deluded by my purist tendencies or my fandom, I don't think catering to those notions is the way. I think to do so will only diminish the character and make it less special (Diet Cap, AquaNamor, and Wonder Xena bear this out in spades). But I can clearly see that your position is not without justification.

[Goldrake]

I was about to be all emotional and launch into a How Dare You style protest when I recall revisiting the Wizard JLA special recently. That was during the height of PAD's run and, loathe as I am to admit it, you are 100% right. Even there Morrison is asked how he will make Orin useful on land. Then I recalled a CBG article I read where PAD talked about challenges he faced during the run as well as 6 -7 directions he would have taken had his run continued. Interestingly, he references the presence of those pop culture pressures and a number of the options were tailored to respond to them.

Sigh

I don't like that. But I gotta say Geoff wasn't in left field with the Try-Hard-ness of his New 52 run. I wonder if that is also the mindset for TPTB's choices for other nontraditional properties.

Either way, whether I am deluded by my purist tendencies or my fandom, I don't think catering to those notions is the way. I think to do so will only diminish the character and make it less special (Diet Cap, AquaNamor, and Wonder Xena bear this out in spades). But I can clearly see that your position is not without justification.

Years ago I had a discussion with some people about Aquaman, they belonged to those comic readers who considered Aquaman as lame. Despite I stood my ground, I could not fail to see their viewpoint and honestly they did had some valid ones. Now put yourself in their place, you have this character that since Superfriends had become a joke. To add to his misery, even the most famous Aquaman story of all time in comics did not help, Death of a Prince. In which he loses a son and later even his wife leaves him. He looked like a loser. Successive writers stuck with that plot line of Arthur having lost his wife and son, sad and melancholic. Instead of coming up with something different, bringing back the boy etc no they seemed sadistically happy to make him look a loser.

When PAD came along he found all this mess, he decided that he needed to make some changes, but the changes done in good faith, was an admission that he was lame. The hook hand that some see as a sign of badassery, others saw it as a sign of being a loser, he lost his son, his wife and now his hand!
His Aquaman is a middle aged arrogant and dour man, who was having an affair with it girl old enough to be his daughter. Sons of his sprang out from nowhere. Even His parentage and name changed. It was Aquaman only in name it wasn't Arthur Curry anyone. Still despite all those changes the bad reputation stuck. The changes that took place after PAD continued to inflict damage to a character that was by now beyond repair.
Despite we could argue that it was not all true, the perception was there and the changes did not help.

New52 with all its faults gave the chance to cancel all that came between Silverage Aquaman up to 2011. Was it right to cancel all that, probably not or at least not everything, but Aquaman had no other alternative. It needed to go back to a more traditional Aquaman although updated to modern times, you can't expect in 2011 to have Mera doing needlework as she did in the sixties. Different times and epochs.
It was the only solution available, nothing else would have worked. Keep always in mind that if Johns did not champion Aquaman, it was very likely that we would have no Aquaman today.

[The Darknight Detective]

Now put yourself in their place, you have this character that since Superfriends had become a joke.

Not since Super Friends, but more like the '90s and maybe later. Aquaman was not a joke when I was a kid - at least no more than any other superhero to those who disliked the genre, at any rate.

[Goldrake]

Not since Super Friends, but more like the '90s and maybe later. Aquaman was not a joke when I was a kid - at least no more than any other superhero to those who disliked the genre, at any rate.

I remember Aquaman not being a joke as a kid as well. PAD confirmed he felt compelled to do those changes mainly due to the undeserved reputation that surrounded the character, which means that damage was already done.

[The Darknight Detective]

I remember Aquaman not being a joke as a kid as well. PAD confirmed he felt compelled to do those changes mainly due to the undeserved reputation that surrounded the character, which means that damage was already done.

I agree with you entirely. There's this revisionist history regarding Arthur' lameness, though, that I always rebut here when I get the chance.

[Goldrake]

I agree with you entirely. There's this revisionist history regarding Arthur' lameness, though, that I always rebut here when I get the chance.

PAD with those changes, gave in to detractors. He alters him into something else, even his name he changed.

[achilles]

I think the proper thing to do with the Nu 52 is to nuke it from orbit, just to be sure. That, or kill it with fire. Then get Professor X to mind-wipe us all so that all memories of it ate gone.

[ducklord]

Serious question from someone who's only paying attention to about 25% of the DCU these days: how much of the "good stuff" in the New 52 has been explicitly or implicitly removed from the current DCU continuity in the first place?

I mean, a *lot* of it still seems to be kicking around in some form or another, only with 95% of the post-Crisis continuity dropped on top of it, right?

What I'm getting at is - what are the best parts of the New 52 that seemed to have been utterly erased (as opposed to not being referenced) by the current state of the DCU?

[Thor-Ul]

Serious question from someone who's only paying attention to about 25% of the DCU these days: how much of the "good stuff" in the New 52 has been explicitly or implicitly removed from the current DCU continuity in the first place?

I mean, a *lot* of it still seems to be kicking around in some form or another, only with 95% of the post-Crisis continuity dropped on top of it, right?

What I'm getting at is - what are the best parts of the New 52 that seemed to have been utterly erased (as opposed to not being referenced) by the current state of the DCU?

Leaving aside the change he made to the Amazons, I enjoyed the new designs of the greek gods done by Azzarello and Chiang in Wonder Woman. Since then they returned to something more close to the vision of Perez which was very classical.

[bat39]

I think most people who liked that series lieked it more for the world building than anything. Then Taylor came and transform it into Injustice lite. Also, did anyone else noted than in Earth 2 Taylor basically used a lot of ideas from the Flashpoint world to demolish earth 2?
I would liked to see the ideas than Robinson had for the series. What really was the iea for the Red lantern, what was going to be Infinity Inc and so. But alas, Taylor screw everything.

Coincidentially, I stopped reading the title after James Robinson left. Wasn't intentional on my part...just happened that way.

I loved his approach to reinventing the JSA. Particularly the ideas of updating Alan Scott into a modern-day media mogul and linking Jay's power to Hermes, the God of Speed.

Serious question from someone who's only paying attention to about 25% of the DCU these days: how much of the "good stuff" in the New 52 has been explicitly or implicitly removed from the current DCU continuity in the first place?

I mean, a *lot* of it still seems to be kicking around in some form or another, only with 95% of the post-Crisis continuity dropped on top of it, right?

What I'm getting at is - what are the best parts of the New 52 that seemed to have been utterly erased (as opposed to not being referenced) by the current state of the DCU?

Honestly? I think its mostly just the New 52 Superman - specifically Morrison's run with the T-shirt and jeans, Golden Age-inspired 'social crusader' Superman.

[Stanlos]

I am reading through these excellent Aquaman related replies. But I wanted to ask whether anyone made the connection with the Old Man of the Sea legend and PAD'S Aquaman and his harpoon hand. I thought that legend was why that was done. Am I again in derp-mode?

[Stanlos]

I think the proper thing to do with the Nu 52 is to nuke it from orbit, just to be sure. That, or kill it with fire. Then get Professor X to mind-wipe us all so that all memories of it ate gone.

This is Commander Shepherd of the Citadel and I fully support this message

[BatmanJones]

‘How would you bring back New Coke?’