DC to Debut 'Joker Level' Villain in New Wonder Woman Series

[Nyssane]

Folks, let's not riled by up a CBR clickbait article.

It's not just the CBR article, Tom King has been vocal in interviews about making this her Joker and it's just so blah.

[Vordan]

I feel like Cheetah still has a long way to go before she's considered Diana's Joker.

My controversial opinion is Cheetah has the archnemesis spot mostly because of inertia. Everyone treats her like the arch because she has been around since the Golden Age and she has been adapted so many times. If you asked people why she’s the archnemesis however, most couldn’t tell you. There’s nothing on the level of Killing Joke or Azz Luthor that really deep dives into Diana and Cheetah and justifies why Cheetah holds that spot.

Of course I’m hardly unbiased since I think it should be Circe . Either way we need a big WW story that is primarily focused on her relationship with a villain. We need something like:




(Joker was mostly bad but this was a great moment all the same). But we need something that really cuts to the core of what Diana’s relationship with her villains is, preferably one on one where it’s just Diana and someone else.

[nj06]

https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-tom-king-joker-dc/


Eh... Feel like been there done that, and once again not using or reinterpreting any classic villains

Also, major pet peeve . Author used "Amazonian" in terms of a person , as in " an Amazonian" and not as a descriptive....

Haaate that soooooo much...lol

Gonna have to take a wait and see approach, but as others have mentioned, this has been done before. Also like others have mentioned, Diana already has foes that can fit this role if they were to just be given some development.

[Frontier]

My controversial opinion is Cheetah has the archnemesis spot mostly because of inertia. Everyone treats her like the arch because she has been around since the Golden Age and she has been adapted so many times. If you asked people why she’s the archnemesis however, most couldn’t tell you. There’s nothing on the level of Killing Joke or Azz Luthor that really deep dives into Diana and Cheetah and justifies why Cheetah holds that spot.

Of course I’m hardly unbiased since I think it should be Circe . Either way we need a big WW story that is primarily focused on her relationship with a villain. We need something like:




(Joker was mostly bad but this was a great moment all the same). But we need something that really cuts to the core of what Diana’s relationship with her villains is, preferably one on one where it’s just Diana and someone else.

I guess the closest would be Rucka's Rebirth run but he spent so much time trying to make her more tragic and friendly towards Diana it harmed her ultimate standing as a villain.

[Mel Dyer]

Hestia's Hearth and Nysanne expressed sentiments, I share. As Clea has been polling high on a list of villains, which we fans want to see developed, I think we need an old-time editor to find a writer, who can use her in a WW story. That same old-time editor should impress upon the writer that WW's archnemesis should be a woman.

As for Cheetah...no. Stop. Please...no.

There's really nothing that Cheetah threatens, that lines up with why Diana left her island, became Wonder Woman or stays in Man's World to do whatever she's doing. Why must it be Cheetah? WW doesn't exist to keep people from getting scratched up. A blockbuster movie couldn't make her cool. Maybe, it's time for some other villain, like Giganta, Janus or Clea, to get a shot.

If some story refocused James Tynion's Circe on threatening the fabric or order of reality, as her main thing - played up how that undermines free will and destiny, and how no Amazon could ever abide it...I would totally peek.

Tynion's Circe is pretty scary.

WW's got a lot of paper tiger supervillains. If some genius writer wants to take Mars or the Duke of Deception and incarnate them in a supernaturally powerful woman (ala Ares Buchanan), I've got no problems. That aside, maybe a new arch, who clearly threatens something conceivably important to WW, isn't such a bad thing.

[Nyssane]

I guess the closest would be Rucka's Rebirth run but he spent so much time trying to make her more tragic and friendly towards Diana it harmed her ultimate standing as a villain.

Why can't she be tragic and still be Diana's archenemy? If anything, her deep relationship makes her an even better candidate for Diana's arch because of the themes Wonder Woman showcases (compassion & rehabilitation).

Plus, she still ended Rucka's run as a villain. It wasn't until Cloonrad that Cheetah became a straight up antihero (one of the weakest parts of their run for me).

[Nero]

Per average, I don't begrudge any writer for wanting to create a new villain for the superhero they're slated to be writing on.

The problem is when the new villain is over hyped to the point where they're compared to classic, well established villains like the Joker. To say that's placing the cart before the horse is an understatement. I get it from a marketing standpoint but even then it's essentially counterproductive because there's no indication the new villain is simply going to succeed, let alone on the level of the Joker. Plus everybody knows this new villain is not going to cut in line with Wonder Woman over her established villains like Cheetah, Circe, Ares, Dr. Psycho. Dr. Poison, etc.

It's similar to when Benjamin Percy said his new villain Solem would be to Wolverine what Loki is to Thor, I'm like he already has that with Sabretooh. Even then, Solem was not going to cut in line with Wolverine's established villains like Omega Red, Lady Deathstrike, Cyber, Silver Samurai, etc. A writer's best bet with their new villain is to be subtle with the hype and aim more towards making sure they have all of the ingredients that go into having a worthy adversary for the established hero.

[Nero]

My controversial opinion is Cheetah has the archnemesis spot mostly because of inertia. Everyone treats her like the arch because she has been around since the Golden Age and she has been adapted so many times. If you asked people why she’s the archnemesis however, most couldn’t tell you. There’s nothing on the level of Killing Joke or Azz Luthor that really deep dives into Diana and Cheetah and justifies why Cheetah holds that spot.

Of course I’m hardly unbiased since I think it should be Circe .

I always thought Circe had the most potential to being Wonder Woman's arch nemesis. Cheetah strikes me more as Wonder Woman's Two-Face as oppose to her Joker per se.

[HestiasHearth]

Speaking of Joker...did anyone read the first issue of the new, Harley-Quinn-co-starring Birds of Prey comic (written by Kelly Thompson & Illustrated by Leonard Romero/Jordie Ballaire)?
spoilers:

It is revealed in the very last page of the book that the reason Black Canary has assembled this new BOP team is to rescue Cynthia Lance, BC's sister, who is somehow trapped in Themyscira!

end of spoilers

[Frontier]

Speaking of Joker...did anyone read the first issue of the new, Harley-Quinn-co-starring Birds of Prey comic (written by Kelly Thompson & Illustrated by Leonard Romero/Jordie Ballaire)?
spoilers:

It is revealed in the very last page of the book that the reason Black Canary has assembled this new BOP team is to rescue Cynthia Lance, BC's sister, who is somehow trapped in Themyscira!

end of spoilers

Happens more often than you think.
spoilers:

(Cough)Green Arrow and Black Canary(Cough). It's like the Amazons have something against the Dinah .

end of spoilers

[WonderLight789]

I feel like Cheetah still has a long way to go before she's considered Diana's Joker.

They would need to stopp treating Cheetah as a joke in most appearances for that to happen. Soi far she is a glorified jobber.

[SiegePerilous02]

I feel like people look to Circe as the arch because she's also from mythology and a spellcasting witch is a cool idea when pitted against Diana as a warrior.

But that's pretty much as far as it goes, because it's not like she's ever had a consistent motivation to hate Diana. Some of the motivations, like the one she had in the Perez era, were pretty bad in a way only comic books can be.

I guess the closest would be Rucka's Rebirth run but he spent so much time trying to make her more tragic and friendly towards Diana it harmed her ultimate standing as a villain.

Why can't she be tragic and still be Diana's archenemy? If anything, her deep relationship makes her an even better candidate for Diana's arch because of the themes Wonder Woman showcases (compassion & rehabilitation).

Plus, she still ended Rucka's run as a villain. It wasn't until Cloonrad that Cheetah became a straight up antihero (one of the weakest parts of their run for me).

People seem to forget that Lex used to be a tragic character who had some redeeming qualities and Superman struggled to reform him. Diana and Barbara Ann are basically riffing on that classic dynamic. If it doesn't disqualify Lex, no reason it shouldn't disqualify Cheetah.

As for Cheetah...no. Stop. Please...no.

There's really nothing that Cheetah threatens, that lines up with why Diana left her island, became Wonder Woman or stays in Man's World to do whatever she's doing. Why must it be Cheetah? WW doesn't exist to keep people from getting scratched up. A blockbuster movie couldn't make her cool. Maybe, it's time for some other villain, like Giganta, Janus or Clea, to get a shot.

Of course Cheetah lines up with Diana's mission. Diana left her island to spread Amazon ideals to the world, to change our world for the better. Since Marston, Cheetah has represented the idea of women being pitted against each other by the patriarchy, a woman who tears other women down to build herself up as opposed to the Amazons theme of sisterhood and women supporting each other. This continued with Perez, where Minerva shattered Diana's innocence by proving to her that not all women would be allies. There is already stuff on the page for Cheetah, vs the vague hypotheticals for Circe that never coalesce into anything.

Janus will never be seen again. Giganta is not arch material. Creators seem to barely remember Clea exists (unfortunately).

By the blockbuster logic, I guess we should give up on Lex too. He's Superman's undisputed arch nemesis, and Eisenberg was considerably more embarrassing than Wiig.

[Mel Dyer]

Well, now I know I'm reading WONDER WOMAN! LOL

A reality-shredding Roman goddess of Time - a magic-oriented, myth-inspired supervillainess, who works equally well as a sci-fi antagonist, ..threatening free will, destiny AND the space-time continuum...but we'll probably never see her again? A-aand...we want more Cheetah and Circe, whom nobody outside of our fan communitywill ever give a Ratatosk's humhair about? It makes no freaking sense, but yes - that's the WW comic in 2023.

I think Cheetah is toast. Despite what fading hopes some of us have for her nonsensical enmity with WW, ..DC Comics execs have only to look at the failure of WW84 and the mass-market appeal of Harley Quinn to figure out what she's worth. I'm going to guess that's probably why Cloonrad & Co was allowed to de-vilify her and run with Janus, Psycho and Hera as their big bads...

So, dont be surprised if we don't see Cheetah headlining any big stories, for the foreseeable future, either. Furthermore, the WW comic is kicking off another bold, new direction, and Cheetah's barely been mentioned...if at all?

Cheetah, as we've known her, is done. If this sets the stage for a Cheetah 5 - new, clearer motivations, backstory, etc - I'm there! Let's hope this has a productive outcome and some kind of reward for the fans, who've been supporting this character, since the SUPER FRIENDS cartoon in the 1970s.

[Primal Slayer]

Well, now I know I'm reading WONDER WOMAN! LOL

A reality-shredding Roman goddess of Time - a magic-oriented, myth-inspired supervillainess, who works equally well as a sci-fi antagonist, ..threatening free will, destiny AND the space-time continuum...but we'll probably never see her again? A-aand...we want more Cheetah and Circe, whom nobody outside of our fan communitywill ever give a Ratatosk's humhair about? It makes no freaking sense, but yes - that's the WW comic in 2023.

I think Cheetah is toast. Despite what fading hopes some of us have for her nonsensical enmity with WW, ..DC Comics execs have only to look at the failure of WW84 and the mass-market appeal of Harley Quinn to figure out what she's worth. I'm going to guess that's probably why Cloonrad & Co was allowed to de-vilify her and run with Janus, Psycho and Hera as their big bads...

So, dont be surprised if we don't see Cheetah headlining any big stories, for the foreseeable future, either. Furthermore, the WW comic is kicking off another bold, new direction, and Cheetah's barely been mentioned...if at all?

Cheetah, as we've known her, is done.

WW84 was a success apart from critically so they should be happy with Cheetah.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, now I know I'm reading WONDER WOMAN! LOL

A reality-shredding Roman goddess of Time - a magic-oriented, myth-inspired supervillainess, who works equally well as a sci-fi antagonist, ..threatening free will, destiny AND the space-time continuum...but we'll probably never see her again? A-aand...we want more Cheetah and Circe, whom nobody outside of our fan communitywill ever give a Ratatosk's humhair about? It makes no freaking sense, but yes - that's the WW comic in 2023.

I think Cheetah is toast. Despite what fading hopes some of us have for her nonsensical enmity with WW, ..DC Comics execs have only to look at the failure of WW84 and the mass-market appeal of Harley Quinn to figure out what she's worth. I'm going to guess that's probably why Cloonrad & Co was allowed to de-vilify her and run with Janus, Psycho and Hera as their big bads...

So, dont be surprised if we don't see Cheetah headlining any big stories, for the foreseeable future, either. Furthermore, the WW comic is kicking off another bold, new direction, and Cheetah's barely been mentioned...if at all?

Cheetah, as we've known her, is done. If this sets the stage for a Cheetah 5 - new, clearer motivations, backstory, etc - I'm there! Let's hope this has a productive outcome and some kind of reward for the fans, who've been supporting this character, since the SUPER FRIENDS cartoon in the 1970s.

Cloonrad ran with Janus, Psycho and Hera as their big bads....in a run that didn't sell that well, even the diehards gradually lost interest and nobody outside of us cared to begin with. Yet you expect Janus to come back while the WB execs are still letting Cheetah be used as the WW villain in the new McDonalds toys alongside Diana and Nubia? At the very least they view her as the same fixture of the IP she always has been. Janus was the latest flavor of the month, people around here were more excited to see Psycho and Gundra than her. And Hera being used as a villain went over like a lead balloon after Historia.


King won't use her as a nemesis, but has expressed interest in exploring their dynamic. Odds are good she will be showing up. And the cyclical nature of comics indicates she will be re-villified again sooner or later.

I don't see what the mass market appeal of Harley has to do with anything. She's more popular than Diana herself, so I don't see how that helps Diana.