COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!
Because Wonder Woman is best when she goes against the grain for typical superhero conventions. Just because everyone else has it (debatable), doesn't necessarily mean she has to.
And classically, Superman doesn't have that enmity towards Lex, but he has it towards Brainiac. But nobody would say Brainiac is the arch over Lex
Vordan, that's brilliant. Brilliant! Wonder Woman doesn't have this sort of enmity (in spite of Phil Jimenez's best efforts to create it), and I'm tired of hearing that WW doesn't need it. Of course, she does.
Why shouldn't our favorite superheroine have a classic archenemy, like everyone else's?"...I think her worst enemy, her arch-nemesis, should be special.
Not just another bloody bank-robber...y'know?
Wonder Woman's archenemy should be a specific threat to what is most important to Wonder Woman, on some personal or cosmic level, ..and not just a bad lady. The arch should be doing something that puts her squarely in the path of the hero's mission. These two have to come to blows. Theirs is a fight that must happen. There must be a universal understanding, among fans or the audience, that their enmity is inevitable, and that the consequences will be far-reaching and ultimately will change a status quo. It should be understood by all that they were born for this singular conflict, such that it takes on an almost meta-mythical importance, in the world. The archenemy is the villain, our hero was born to battle and destroy...
Or be destroyed by..." Mel Dyer, "The Enmity Mystique: Mulling Over Wonder Woman's Classic Nemesislessness" [Wondabunga]
There is no "dynamic", as I see it. The villain has to have an ambition, which threatens what is most important to the hero, ..or it must be the other way around - always! That's not and never has been there between WW and the Cheetah, ..but King is welcome to create one, where none previously existed.
And re-vilify the Cheetah? A new Cheetah, with a CLEAR motivation, a new backstory? Great. I hope we'll see this, one day. I will applaud the effort, by Tom King or any other good fiction writer.
I don't think we can be fair to Tom King and what he's trying to accomplish on WW. For Wonder Woman's rogues, ..the volume of WORK - long-range vision, universally appreciated cycle of stories, other development - that's made the nemeses of other superheroes, something we call 'classic', simply isn't there. It's not there, because editor Robert Kanigher didn't put it there, and it's too late to do anything about it. The wasted Silver Age Fifties set this comic so far behind similar comics, that we can't hold up WW's supporting cast, superhero family or rogues gallery to be compared with the others. The best we can hope to do is let a Tom King or Conrad/Cloonan try to create something functional, entertaining and (hopefully) inspiring to stand-in for what might have been...
Last edited by Mel Dyer; 09-06-2023 at 09:06 PM.
COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!
Vordan, that's brilliant. Brilliant! Wonder Woman doesn't have this sort of enmity (in spite of Phil Jimenez's best efforts to create it), and I'm tired of hearing that WW doesn't need it. Of course, she does.
Why shouldn't our favorite superheroine have a classic archenemy, like everyone else's?"...I think her worst enemy, her arch-nemesis, should be special.
Not just another bloody bank-robber...y'know?
Wonder Woman's archenemy should be a specific threat to what is most important to Wonder Woman, on some personal or cosmic level, ..and not just a bad lady. The arch should be doing something that puts her squarely in the path of the hero's mission. These two have to come to blows. Theirs is a fight that must happen. There must be a universal understanding, among fans or the audience, that their enmity is inevitable, and that the consequences will be far-reaching and ultimately will change a status quo. It should be understood by all that they were born for this singular conflict, such that it takes on an almost meta-mythical importance, in the world. The archenemy is the villain, our hero was born to battle and destroy...
Or be destroyed by..." Mel Dyer, "The Enmity Mystique: Mulling Over Wonder Woman's Classic Nemesislessness" [Wondabunga]
There is no "dynamic", as I see it. The villain has to have an ambition, which threatens what is most important to the hero, ..or it must be the other way around - always! That's not and never has been there between WW and the Cheetah, ..but King is welcome to create one, where none previously existed.
And re-vilify the Cheetah? A new Cheetah, with a CLEAR motivation, a new backstory? Great. I hope we'll see this, one day. I will applaud the effort, by Tom King or any other good fiction writer.
I mentioned Harley, Janus, Hera and the others to illustrate that giving Cheetah another shot at the Wonder-villain spotlight, so soon after WW84, ..doesn't seem to be a priority for DC Comics, presently. Even in her new capacity as history expert/Wonder-friend, Cheetah is nowhere near the center of things in WW.
Last edited by Mel Dyer; 09-07-2023 at 01:56 AM. Reason: content
COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!
Circe's fun, is really powerful, and at least has a few events she's tied to (War of the Gods, Witching Hour, I guess Amazons Attack loathe as I am to mention it).
I think because even with the more tragic interpretations they still kind of double down on how bad a person Lex is.People seem to forget that Lex used to be a tragic character who had some redeeming qualities and Superman struggled to reform him. Diana and Barbara Ann are basically riffing on that classic dynamic. If it doesn't disqualify Lex, no reason it shouldn't disqualify Cheetah. .
Does WW really need a definitive arch-enemy? If you really think about it, her true arch-enemy are the oppressive systems of the world, not individuals. She's not Batman and she doesn't need to have the same dynamics with her villains.
For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/
I am not sure we can be fair to Tom King and what he's trying to accomplish on giving Wonder Woman, a Joker-class archenemy.
For Wonder Woman's rogues, ..the volume of WORK - long-range vision, universally appreciated cycle of stories, other development - that's made the arch-nemeses of other superheroes, something we call 'classic', ..simply isn't there. It's not there, because editor Robert Kanigher didn't put it there, and it's too late to do anything about the vacuum his inaction created. The wasted Silver Age Fifties set this comic so far behind similar comics, that we can't hold up WW's supporting cast, superhero family or rogues gallery to be compared with the others. Conceptually, ALL of WW's more popular rogues - Mars, the Baroness, Doctor Cyber, Cheetah, Giganta, Circe - have stellar potential, ..but the cycle of stories, comparable to "For the Man Who Has Everything", "The Killing Joke", Dark Phoenix Saga and 'The Dark Knight Returns', which might show them at their best, doesn't exist.
Maybe...the best we can hope to do is let a Tom King or Conrad/Cloonan try to create something functional, entertaining and (hopefully) inspiring to stand-in for what might have been. At the center of that...a classic conflict! Who will it be, glaring at Diana, amidst the flames and smoking ruins, ..at the end of everything? Maybe, Tom King will answer that.
I think some of what makes it hard for us to not rally for re-habbing old Wonder-rogues is pride. We've been reading and championing this comic for a long time - some of us [Me!], decades - and we want some writer or creator to hop on this comic and make it feel like our faith and PATIENCE have been well-placed. Some of us [Me!] have been waiting for the definitive WW story, complete with Wonder-villains making a good showing, since Lynda Carter was in stars and stripes...since the bloody SUPER FRIENDS - we're invested here! Bringing in brand new characters, mythos and villains makes some of us [Not me.] feel the Wonder-greatness we've been waiting for, for so long, is being discarded or dismissed as garbage - that it was all for nothing...
And we're like..."I think Villain X could be X, Y and Z, if some genius writer could see what I see, ..and I see potential! Hey! Wait a minute!"
Tom King's press is being very careful to not '52 us, with a whole new tonal orientation, revised history and characters, we no longer recognize. Maybe, this new archvillain and his enmity with Diana, will serve as a focal point, ..setting a dynamic tone for the revitalization of everything we've been waiting so long for. While I'd be more than happy to see WW's rogues gallery cut down to the TEN BEST, I'm fine with King plugging in a new alpha-rogue. That's my hope, anyway.
And if the next writer lets Giganta eat him and absorb his knowledge and power, giving her death ray eye-beams and properly making WW's archenemy, female,...I'm there! I can dig that.
I'm getting tired of the 'Amazonian' thing, too.
Last edited by Mel Dyer; 09-07-2023 at 02:59 AM. Reason: content
COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!
Eh, at this point one just has to roll their eyes and humor writers when they want to make a brand new arch nemesis. Yes, we all know that it is a doomed effort and will go the way of so many villains created to fill that very specific niche, but its something that nearly every writer with big eyes and bigger dreams pins their hopes on, wanting to be THE ONE to pull it off.
Regarding Cheetah she does indeed function well as A nemesis for Wonder Woman. But it needs to be pointed out that the whole point of a nemesis is that they inform the hero in some vital way and she does. I look to Alex Ross's "Justice" where when facing against the Cheetah whose put Diana in a position where she is dying, Diana still sees Cheetah as a victim and wants to help her. Batman might want justice and Superman might want to protect, but Wonder Woman is defined by wanting to help.
All that said, no matter how hard any writer tries, their never really going to succeed in replacing Ares in the top spot. I know it rubs some people the wrong way, but when you have a baddie that is the anthropomorphic personification of war and destruction, your not really going to find a better thematic foe for someone who heralds peace. Just....Put more effort into his champions, have him aid other villains from the shadows and you've got gold right there.
Is there some reason Ares or Mars can't mock WW, by inhabiting the body of a mortal woman, ..like Veronica Cale or whoever?
I'm so over Cheetah and tired of waiting for the definitive Cheetah story that rivals DKR or the DPS. Like MOST Wonder-villains, including Diet Vader (Ares), Cheetah doesn't exist outside of our speculative exchanges in forums, like this one. WW didn't leave Paradise for Man's World just to keep from getting scratched up, and, if we're being REALLY honest, ..we have to consider that WW can do better than Cheetah, for an arch-anything.
Last edited by Mel Dyer; 09-07-2023 at 05:18 AM.
COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!