How to keep Magneto's Holocaust origin in future adaptions

[yogaflame]

Well, whatever they do with the character, I hope they don't do another Anglo-British actor in the role. Go get a Jewish Polish/German/whatever European actor, if that origin is so important.

[whitecrown]

Mystique, Destiny and Logan are 200+ years old. Exodus is 800+ years old. Apocalypse is 2000+ years old. It's already canon that some mutants age very, very, very slowly. Magneto and Xavier were born in the late 1930s and met in post-1945 Israel. It's not a No Prize winning solution.

Most of those characters have powers that explain why they age so slowly. Mystique and Apocalypse are shape-shifters. Apocalypse has Celestial technology to grant him longer life and he regularly transfers himself into new host bodies whenever he ages. Logan and Sabretooth both have healing factors. Selene is a psychic vampire.

Destiny is the one whose age makes no sense to me since she was a young woman in the Victorian era.

[yogaflame]

Mystique, Destiny and Logan are 200+ years old. Exodus is 800+ years old. Apocalypse is 2000+ years old. It's already canon that some mutants age very, very, very slowly. Magneto and Xavier were born in the late 1930s and met in post-1945 Israel. It's not a No Prize winning solution.

Wolverine was a small child in the closing years of the 19th century, so he was probably born about 1887 or so, making him about 136 today. Mystique and Destiny are a little harder to pin down, but if they are young women circa Sherlock Holmes in 1888, they are at least 20 or 30 years older than him, so about 156-166.

Apocalypse is about 5000 years old, dating to the earliest historic period of Egypt. Exodus is fixed to the Crusades, making him a young man in 1096, so he's over 900 years old. But both he and Apocalypse have spent considerable, if not most of their time, in hibernation.

In the most current canon, Xavier is only supposed to be about 45. Morrison explicitly aged him at 41 in his run. So, no, he can't be born in the 1930's. Remember, Legion was introduced as a teenager, and Xavier was a young man just out of the army, still in his early to mid 20's, when he met Gabrielle[and Magnus].

[charliehustle415]

Wolverine was a small child in the closing years of the 19th century, so he was probably born about 1887 or so, making him about 136 today. Mystique and Destiny are a little harder to pin down, but if they are young women circa Sherlock Holmes in 1888, they are at least 20 or 30 years older than him, so about 156-166.

Apocalypse is about 5000 years old, dating to the earliest historic period of Egypt. Exodus is fixed to the Crusades, making him a young man in 1096, so he's over 900 years old. But both he and Apocalypse have spent considerable, if not most of their time, in hibernation.

In the most current canon, Xavier is only supposed to be about 45. Morrison explicitly aged him at 41 in his run. So, no, he can't be born in the 1930's. Remember, Legion was introduced as a teenager, and Xavier was a young man just out of the army, still in his early to mid 20's, when he met Gabrielle[and Magnus].

Exactly, both Xavier and Erik's age have to be sussed out as time goes on.

Roger's works because he can be in ice no matter the length and it actually works towards his character of a man outta time.

But it doesn't work for Magneto and Xavier.

[yogaflame]

Destiny is the one whose age makes no sense to me since she was a young woman in the Victorian era.

1980 was a long time ago! She could have just been an elderly woman who lived that long back then. And she died before the end of that decade, so it kinda works fine. You could make some excuse about her being one with the sands of time or some nonsense if you wanted to make her the whole 150/160 to this day, but there are people who live to be 120 or so in real life. If you could also be aware of every little danger, every possibility, why not live a few decades more?

[ExodusCloak]

Make him an energy being or make him Palestinian

[yogaflame]

Make him an energy being or make him Palestinian

Heads would pop if you made him a sympathetic Palestinian.

I do think, unlike many, that you could modernize his origin, placing him within the context of some other human tragedy, but that one in particular would be a minefield no studio exec would willingly walk into.

As for the energy being, I think that's too far. Again, if he's operating at that high a degree since the late 40's/50's or so, there's no way you could have a basically normal MCU history as it exists. I think if you really want to keep the WW2 origin, you have to freeze him or otherwise take him off the board until just about now, as he emerges[in the MCU's version of his Cape Citadel attack]. His narrative as a villainous terrorist trying to make a land for his people, and then take over the entire world, falls apart if he's been simmering in the background for 70+ years.

I would rather he's been in the Collector's vault, [delivered by the Stranger?] after he was found him in some bunker Hydra had forgotten about. Some sexy Hydra agent spiked his drink in a bar he wondered in after Magda left him sometime in the late 50's or 60's(his powers had still been manifesting at a lower level from his traumatic/starved pubescence until the huge flare up when Anya was burned in that fire), and they froze him until they could figure out a way to control him(a perfect weapon to destroy America/the Allies/whatever), only to have been lost in the sands of time for whatever reason. He wakes up(who freed him?.....), somewhat amnesic, works at a mental hospital until young Jean is admitted, only to be saved by a young Dr. Xavier, who is able to inexplicably bring her out of her coma following the death of Annie or whatever. He and Xavier become friends, his memories get unlocked, he's ready and ripping to take over the world again, parting ways with his pacifistic friend. Cue a few years of him building up various secret bases(under the volcano, on Asteroid M, etc)until he's ready to make his first move: Cape Citadel{or equivalent}.

There. Inserted into the MCU as a middle aged man(35 or 40), with his friendship with Xavier and WW2 origin intact. You could replace young Jean with a Gabrielle, but she'd not be able to have that Nazi gold programming so many decades down the line. Unless you tie her into a more recent Hydra MK Ultra/Project Monarch type program. That could work too if you really want to preserve the Legion stuff in the MCU.

[gurkle]

I've always liked the idea, and wonder why they don't use it in comics, that time passes differently so characters have lived through many different real-life events while celebrating a normal number of birthdays.

Like I still don't understand why they keep going back and rewriting the origin of the Fantastic Four. Is it really more "realistic" that their past keeps randomly changing than if they always went into space to beat the Commies, no matter what year this is?

But I'm a solitary voice on that one. Short of that, I don't know how you can do it. The MCU will probably use the "multiverse" angle to bring in characters whose backstories are tied to past events, but if it were me (and it's not) Magneto was a Holocaust survivor and Xavier was a Korean War vet and no one ever brings up how old they are, because it's not relevant.

[Psy-lock]

Another possible solution is to make all mutants age slower than humans. Like, if a human can live up to 100+ then for a mutant it would be 150-200. Though it still doesn't solve the problem of what the hell Magneto was doing for almost a century.

[KurtW95]

I don't think Charles or any other character needs to age slower. As they are not tied to history like Magneto is. Any veteran character can be a veteran of a more recent war, if you're starting from any war after WW2.

Make him an energy being or make him Palestinian

Ah yes. Turn a character whose origin shows the horrors of antisemitism into a character whose origins promote antisemitism. Classy.

Well, whatever they do with the character, I hope they don't do another Anglo-British actor in the role. Go get a Jewish Polish/German/whatever European actor, if that origin is so important.

It is important, but I don't think the background of the actor matters as long as he's white passing. Paul Rudd is Ashkenazi Jewish and he's playing non-Jewish Scott Lang. Jon Bernthal is Ashkenazi Jewish and he's playing non-Jewish Frank Castle. RDJ, Michael Douglas, and Scarlett Johansson are ethnically half Ashkenazi Jewish and played non-Jewish Tony Stark, Hank Pam, and Natasha Romanoff. As long as the actor looks like the character in the comic and I can believe it's the character, I don't see any problem.

I still think that saying his powers keep his cells from rusting is the easiest, least confusing, and most effective way of handling Magneto being in the present as an imposing physical threat.

I also still think that he should be the father of the twins with Magda. But I think you could easily say that the High Evolutionary kept them in stasis as babies until Bova released them and handed them over to Django and Marya.

[myownlittleusername]

Mystique, Destiny and Logan are 200+ years old. Exodus is 800+ years old. Apocalypse is 2000+ years old. It's already canon that some mutants age very, very, very slowly. Magneto and Xavier were born in the late 1930s and met in post-1945 Israel. It's not a No Prize winning solution.

What did Magneto (and Xavier) then do in all those years between WW2 and the current day (2020s)?

[davetvs]

I don't think it's that hard to believe Magneto is just that old. Say his powers slow his aging if need be, it's not like that's not a thing with some mutants. I agree that the MCU Magneto (and Kitty) should be played by Jewish actors.

[Triniking1234]

Threads like these make me glad y'all aren't writing the books I buy.

Anyways, as the gap between the Holocaust and the real world gets wider, it'll be fun to see what Marvel does. Too bad he doesn't have a good out like Namor, Steve Rogers and Jim Hammond.

[ARkadelphia]

Which can beg the question if it wouldn't be better for the Marvel comics to drop all pretence of trying to be "up to date" and relevant" by referencing real world "current" events, technologies and celebrities and instead embrace the idea of the main Marvel Universe exists in a vague time period of the recent past but full of intentional and tongue in cheek anachronisms?

Infact it can be argued that the sliding timescale and stubborn adherence to the idea that the Marvel Universe has to remain unchanging from and up to date with the real world actualy harms the suspension of disbelief much more than any of the fantastic or illogical elements of the world.

After all, everyone who would actualy bother to read up on famous stories and events will quickly notice that these clearly take place in what looks like the 1960's, 70's, 80's and 90's respectively and yet according to the sliding timescale those would have to take place in 2000 or 2010.

For example according to the sliding timescale disco was still one of the dominant mainstream music genres in 2010, just so everything about Dazzler's current age, career and classic stories make sense.

Which in turn would mean that around 50 genres or styles of eletronic dance music evolved or became popular within less than 13 years afterwards.

By trying to be "up to date" the Marvel comics make it much more difficult for potential new readers to take their continuity seriously, when it's so blatantly inconnsistent with the world they take place in or the real world.

So perhaps it would be better for the main Marvel Comics Universe to embrace a sort of modern "hyborian age" taking place somewhere in the late 80's or early 90's and mix various forms of anachronism.

Just like how the classic Batman cartoon of the 1990's was designed to look vaguely 1950's in terms of aesthetics, but featured a mixture of modern and even futuristic technologies. Giving it a much more "timeless" feel.

Time just works differently in the Marvel Universe than it does in our own

[bat39]

I've seen people discuss what should happen in future adaptions with Magneto, as we get further away from WWII and the Holocaust. I think that origin shouldn't go away at all. And there are ways to keep the idea that he's an Ashkenazi Jewish Holocaust survivor intact. Of course, comics don't really have to address it with the sliding timescale and all. People understand that. You don't have to constantly update with war a veteran character served in. You could always do to him what happened with Steve Rogers, but I don't think that's the best idea. Or follow Evolution's lead and say he used machines. But I think the simplest way to do it would be to just say that his magnetic powers can keep his cells from oxidizing like metal. And you could even keep the way he and Charles met in Israel somewhat, as antisemitism in the world and violent attacks on people there are still sadly prevalent. So, he could have been working in a hospital there any time really after one of Arafat's Intifadas or any of Hamas' campaigns. I still hope Fassbender can reprise the role in the future. He's so great as Magneto.

Been talking about this for years but haven't seen much discussion about it. Glad that's changing!

In terms of 616, the way I see it, the issue is not so much Magneto's age per se, as there are any number of ways that he can be (and has been) de-aged in the comics and existing adaptations already. The issue is how he's intertwined with the history of the Marvel Universe, specifically Wanda-Pietro, and Charles Xavier.

If we're keeping his Holocaust backstory, then you basically need a way to account for how he's the same age 15 years ago as he was back in the 1950's or 60's. The answers are that he's either de-aged sometime during the intervening decades/makes himself ageless. Or that he's missing during that period, by virtue of being in statis, or being somewhere/somplace where time works differently (maybe straight up time-travel too).

If he's de-aged, or ageless, you have another issue...his youthful body aside, he's essentially old enough to be Xavier's father, if not his grandfather! Does their dynamic still work the same way?

Alternatively, if we go with the statis/time-travel explanation, then he's the same age as Xavier but someone who originates from a different era and a different generation. So again, that does affect the dynamic a bit, but maybe not as much as if Magneto had decades of lived experience over Charles.

Oh, and Charles not being born pre-WW2 is pretty much established now in 616. In the X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine mini, Charles' father is shown to be a teenage lieutanant during WW2, and Charles' birth is explicitly in some later (unspecified) point of time. So Marvel's stance is clearly that Charles is on the sliding timescale...they just haven't delved into how that affects his past with Magneto (and with Gabrille Haller of course). House of X/Powers of X is also pretty clear about Charles being around the same age as Moira MacTaggert, who mostly definitely wasn't born (again and again) pre-WW2...

Anyway, that's how it is in 616. Marvel just needs to publish a one-shot or mini or something that lays out a retconned version of Magneto's past and Xavier and Magneto's first meeting.

As far as adaptations go...well, some variation of the explanations I've given above might work, though obviously there's a lot more room to manuevere with since they aren't beholden to any established X-men history. Hell, we still don't know how they're going to integrate the X-men, and mutants in general, into the MCU - its very likely some kind of multiversal shenanigans or timeline realignment might be in order!

Leaving the nitty-gritties aside, I suppose the question is - should they reinvent Magneto without the Holocaust backstory?

My first instinct is...No. Simply because its become such an iconic and definitive part of the character, not least due to how much the Fox X-men films focused on it (and love them or hate them, that's how most of the general audience know about the X-men). And if you do, there's the question of what other tragedy you could 'replace' the Holocaust with, which not only runs the risk of undermining the Holocaust, but also then creates a perverse political 'contest' over whose oppression is more 'worthy' to be 'represented' by Magneto (as we've already seen in this very thread). Honestly, if they do get rid of the Holocaust backstory, I'd prefer if they don't tie Magneto to any specific real-world historical tragedy.

That said, the one thing that may work in a respectful manner is making Magneto a present-day Israeli (or a European Jew) who's the descendant of Holocaust survivors. My pet theory is actually Magneto being a former IDF officer, who's also served as part of Mossad, which was when he first started to use his powers and became an asset for the Israeli defence establishment...until he went rogue. I think being an Israeli soldier/spy gives Magneto a history (and a present) that's tied to the context of the Holocaust, and also a lesson in the need for force to ensure the survival of your community/people/race. But I can see how this might be controversial, especially if not handled right.

Wolverine was a small child in the closing years of the 19th century, so he was probably born about 1887 or so, making him about 136 today. Mystique and Destiny are a little harder to pin down, but if they are young women circa Sherlock Holmes in 1888, they are at least 20 or 30 years older than him, so about 156-166.

Apocalypse is about 5000 years old, dating to the earliest historic period of Egypt. Exodus is fixed to the Crusades, making him a young man in 1096, so he's over 900 years old. But both he and Apocalypse have spent considerable, if not most of their time, in hibernation.

In the most current canon, Xavier is only supposed to be about 45. Morrison explicitly aged him at 41 in his run. So, no, he can't be born in the 1930's. Remember, Legion was introduced as a teenager, and Xavier was a young man just out of the army, still in his early to mid 20's, when he met Gabrielle[and Magnus].

Xavier was born after WW2, as per X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine, as I mentioned above. How much after? We don't know. He's shown to be a youngish man, but established as a Professor and as a humanitarian leader/activist of some sort already during Logan's Team X days. Is that on the sliding timescale now, or is it still frozen in the 60's?

Honestly, I'd just keep it simple and go with the idea that Xavier was born '55 years ago'. He was in his 20's when he was in the military (that'd currently be during the Gulf War perhaps...or maybe he was just part of the 'Siancong War'). In his late 20's/early 30's he met Erik Lensherr and Gabrille Haller. In his early 40's he formed the X-men.