Batman & Robin #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[Morgoth]

I get the impression that DC has some kind of mandate now to keep Damian and Dick away from each other. They pretty much ignore their history, over the past few years they interacted only once during Williamson's run on Robin (but that scene was beatiful), they didn't share a scene together during Dark Crisis, even though it would make way more sense, and Damian still hasn't made an appearance in Taylor's Nightwing, even though everyone else constantly appear there. And I don't really get the reason why it's happening like that.
It's like they think, that their relationship stands on the way of pushing Dick/Jon mentor-student relationship or some **** like that, lol.

[Frontier]

Now you know that I didn't think it made sense right? Purpose achieved.

And all good with Damian being the more main character, I just feel like his dynamic with Bruce is off. Its like Batman is either too hard or too controlling or he's too passive. I think its too passive here. I think Tomasi had a better handle on the dynamic even though I didn't like his story choices.

I view it as Batman trying to be a good dad, especially after all the drama with Damian that they'd previously had. He's trying to set a good relationship and boundaries with Damian so that he doesn't lose him again.

I have the same complaint with Williamson. Dick was really the key to turning Damian around and teaching him to become a hero. Not Bruce, it was Dick. I don't think they show Batman expressing that enough and Damian should have a much closer relationship with him than we've seen. I think they had what like one panel before Damian died where their partnership was mentioned. Like come on they both should've been grieving Alfred together.

In fairness, though, this is a book about Bruce and Damian and their father son relationship.

Dick is an important part of Damians' character and vice-versa, but this is a book focused on Bruce and Damian.

[Konja7]

I get the impression that DC has some kind of mandate now to keep Damian and Dick away from each other. They pretty much ignore their history, over the past few years they interacted only once during Williamson's run on Robin (but that scene was beatiful), they didn't share a scene together during Dark Crisis, even though it would make way more sense, and Damian still hasn't made an appearance in Taylor's Nightwing, even though everyone else constantly appear there. And I don't really get the reason why it's happening like that.
It's like they think, that their relationship stands on the way of pushing Dick/Jon mentor-student relationship or some **** like that, lol.

I'm pretty sure it's more about Bruce/Damian relationship. They likely want Bruce to be the main mentor (father) in Damian's life.

Dick was the mentor who helped Damian, because Morrison wanted to write his version of Batman and Robin. They even planned to kill Damian at the end, so he being Robin was temporary.

Now, Bruce and Damian are Batman and Robin (and there are even plans for a movie adaptation), so DC wants them to be the closer ones. I'm pretty sure DC doesn't want a more important mentor for Robin than Batman.

[Frontier]

I'm pretty sure it's more about Bruce/Damian relationship. They likely want Bruce to be the main mentor (father) in Damian's life.

Dick was the mentor who helped Damian, because Morrison wanted to write his version of Batman and Robin. They even planned to kill Damian at the end, so he being Robin was temporary.

Now, Bruce and Damian are Batman and Robin (and there are even plans for a movie adaptation), so DC wants them to be the closer ones. I'm pretty sure DC doesn't want a more important mentor for Robin than Batman.

Admittedly Bruce and Damian have been through a pretty rocky and tumultuous journey together as both father/son and as partners, they weren't as natural together as Dick and Damian and that was arguably the case in-story.

Now we've seen them both grow as people and in their relationship together and they're a much better and more effective duo as a result.

[Astralabius]

Now you know that I didn't think it made sense right? Purpose achieved.

And all good with Damian being the more main character, I just feel like his dynamic with Bruce is off. Its like Batman is either too hard or too controlling or he's too passive. I think its too passive here. I think Tomasi had a better handle on the dynamic even though I didn't like his story choices.

No, you didn't achieve **** because you are barely providing any arguments.

[Astralabius]

I have the same complaint with Williamson. Dick was really the key to turning Damian around and teaching him to become a hero. Not Bruce, it was Dick. I don't think they show Batman expressing that enough and Damian should have a much closer relationship with him than we've seen. I think they had what like one panel before Damian died where their partnership was mentioned. Like come on they both should've been grieving Alfred together.

How should they have mourned Alfred together, Dick was still Ric at the time.

[marvelprince]

No, you didn't achieve **** because you are barely providing any arguments.

I didn’t provide any arguments at all. I made a statement.

How should they have mourned Alfred together, Dick was still Ric at the time.

Comics have this weird things where they don’t have to linear all the time. They could have easily done a flashback showing Dick and Damian reuniting at Alfred’s grave and reflecting on what he meant to them. I don’t even hate that they killed him, but they’ve done barely anything to mine the pathos it should’ve caused. The glue to the Bat-fam being lost should have more feeling than we’ve seen. Without Alfred’s encouragement Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin wouldn’t have worked, that doesn’t bear a mention?

[marvelprince]

I'm pretty sure it's more about Bruce/Damian relationship. They likely want Bruce to be the main mentor (father) in Damian's life.

Dick was the mentor who helped Damian, because Morrison wanted to write his version of Batman and Robin. They even planned to kill Damian at the end, so he being Robin was temporary.

Now, Bruce and Damian are Batman and Robin (and there are even plans for a movie adaptation), so DC wants them to be the closer ones. I'm pretty sure DC doesn't want a more important mentor for Robin than Batman.

There are ways to do that without ignoring the history. Dick was the mentor Damian needed to become a hero , to really become Robin. Sure he’s more of his own Robin now but that’s too formative to ignore imo.

[marvelprince]

I view it as Batman trying to be a good dad, especially after all the drama with Damian that they'd previously had. He's trying to set a good relationship and boundaries with Damian so that he doesn't lose him again.

In fairness, though, this is a book about Bruce and Damian and their father son relationship.

Dick is an important part of Damians' character and vice-versa, but this is a book focused on Bruce and Damian.

I get that re Bruce wanting to respect boundaries. And I like that but in practice on the page he’s still too passive for me. Mark Waid gets the balance of stern, controlling but caring that I think I’m missing.

And my complaints with the Dick relationship are more with Williamson in general, not specifically this title. That said I think this title is the perfect place to reflect on that to show and contrast how much Damian has evolved since he was Batman and Robin with Dick.

[Frontier]

I get that re Bruce wanting to respect boundaries. And I like that but in practice on the page he’s still too passive for me. Mark Waid gets the balance of stern, controlling but caring that I think I’m missing.

And my complaints with the Dick relationship are more with Williamson in general, not specifically this title. That said I think this title is the perfect place to reflect on that to show and contrast how much Damian has evolved since he was Batman and Robin with Dick.

This didn't feel too off from Waid Bruce to me.

Williamson at least acknowledged Dick and Damian's relationship in his solo Robin run.

[Triniking1234]

I get the impression that DC has some kind of mandate now to keep Damian and Dick away from each other. They pretty much ignore their history, over the past few years they interacted only once during Williamson's run on Robin (but that scene was beatiful), they didn't share a scene together during Dark Crisis, even though it would make way more sense, and Damian still hasn't made an appearance in Taylor's Nightwing, even though everyone else constantly appear there. And I don't really get the reason why it's happening like that.
It's like they think, that their relationship stands on the way of pushing Dick/Jon mentor-student relationship or some **** like that, lol.

There's no mandate; it's just the stories that Nightwing gets don't require Damian's presence.

Although it's funny that Jon is going to Dick for advice instead of Kara.

[TheKryptonMan]

I was actually enjoying Damian's Robin series a lot more than this 1st issue .
This first issue with Bruce & Damian seems forced , I don't sense the chemistry that was there between Dick & Damian .
Also with so many Robins around , Bruce works better on his own nowadays . I think it's cool when Dick , Tim show up in Batman and Tec for a couple of issues .
But a proper Batman & Robin book like this , with them not even at the Manor just isn't needed .
Also the lack of Alfred , he's sorely missed in this book , more so than in the other books.
And yes , it does look like , DC is intentionally keeping Grayson and Damian apart .

[Frontier]

I was actually enjoying Damian's Robin series a lot more than this 1st issue .
This first issue with Bruce & Damian seems forced , I don't sense the chemistry that was there between Dick & Damian .
Also with so many Robins around , Bruce works better on his own nowadays . I think it's cool when Dick , Tim show up in Batman and Tec for a couple of issues .
But a proper Batman & Robin book like this , with them not even at the Manor just isn't needed .
Also the lack of Alfred , he's sorely missed in this book , more so than in the other books.
And yes , it does look like , DC is intentionally keeping Grayson and Damian apart .

Honestly this is fulfilling my itch to have Batman and Robin together and fighting crime as a team very well.

We get enough solo Bruce as it is.

[marvelprince]

Honestly this is fulfilling my itch to have Batman and Robin together and fighting crime as a team very well.

We get enough solo Bruce as it is.

Yeah I like stories with Batman and Robin together as well. Not the whole bat-fam, just Batman and Robin. I think I preferred Chip’s take with Bruce and Tim but I’m willing to see how Williamson plays it out.

[Morgoth]

There's no mandate; it's just the stories that Nightwing gets don't require Damian's presence.

But require everybody else? I mean, literally everyone have been used there, except him.