Fables is now public domain

[Agent Z]

Bill Willingham has just issued a press release declaring that "As of now, 15 September 2023, the comic book property called Fables, including all related Fables spin-offs and characters, is now in the public domain. What was once wholly owned by Bill Willingham is now owned by everyone, for all time. It's done, and as most experts will tell you, once done it cannot be undone. Take-backs are neither contemplated nor possible." And he gives a series of question and answer statements. This release was originally planned for yesterday, but has been moved forward to today after it was published elsewhere.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/bill...ill-dc-do-now/

[Frontier]

Wow, DC dropped the ball here.

[Vakanai]

Yeah heard the news earlier, kind of partly what inspired my earlier thread today (in the TV/Film section). I like the idea of public domain, but I honestly can't think of much good I've seen from it outside mostly some Sherlock Holmes or Dracula stuff.

[MRP]

I understand and appreciate Willingham's gesture and wanting to muddy the waters for DC, but a) all the characters are based on characters from fables which are in the public domain anyways, and B) you can't use the Fables name or logos in anything you make using those characters because DC still owns the trademarks on those which Willingham can do nothing about, because trademarks are completely separate from copyright and never go into the "public domain" as long as the company owning them show use and renew them. So you can tell a story based on the Big Bad Wolf, Cinderella, Snow White etc. but can't use the Fables branding or logos. Well, you could have done that before Willingham's gesture because, yeah those characters are all public domain anyways.

And while I appreciate the gesture, and the sentiment behind it, in the grand scheme of things, it is an empty gesture that doesn't change the landscape at all for those characters.

-M

[HsssH]

Could you do a direct sequel to some Fables story before this? As I understand now you can, just with different logo.

[Midnight_v]

Then I first signed my creator-owned publishing contract with DC Comics, the company was run by honest men and women of integrity, who (for the most part) interpreted the details of that agreement fairly and above-board. When problems inevitably came up we worked it out, like reasonable men and women. Since then, over the span of twenty years or so, those people have left or been fired, to be replaced by a revolving door of strangers, of no measurable integrity, who now choose to interpret every facet of our contract in ways that only benefit DC Comics and its owner companies. At one time, the Fables properties were in good hands, and now, by virtue of attrition and employee replacement, the Fables properties have fallen into bad hands.

Since I can't afford to sue DC, to force them to live up to the letter and the spirit of our long-time agreements; since even winning such a suit would take ridiculous amounts of money out of my pocket and years out of my life (I'm 67 years old, and don't have the years to spare), I've decided to take a different approach, and fight them in a different arena, inspired by the principles of asymmetric warfare. The one thing in our contract the DC lawyers can't contest, or reinterpret to their own benefit, is that I am the sole owner of the intellectual property. I can sell it or give it away to whomever I want.

I chose to give it away to everyone. If I couldn't prevent Fables from falling into bad hands, at least this is a way I can arrange that it also falls into many good hands. Since I truly believe there are still more good people in the world than bad ones, I count it as a form of victory.

Interesting... after everything I had thought it was just artistic integrity that had suffered.
Regardless of the outcome or effect... the intent displayed here is MORE than admirable.

[Digifiend]

Could you do a direct sequel to some Fables story before this? As I understand now you can, just with different logo.

Couldn't call it Fables, but yeah, you can I believe.

[marhawkman]

Couldn't call it Fables, but yeah, you can I believe.

The word "fables" isn't inherently copyrightable. So you could use the word as part of the title.

[Digifiend]

Like "The Fable of Bigby"?

[Gaastra]

Are You Concerned at What DC Will Do Now?
No. I gave them years to do the right thing. I tried to reason with them, but you can't reason with the unreasonable. They used these years to make soothing promises, tell lies about how dedicated they were towards working this out, and keep dragging things out as long as possible. I gave them an opportunity to renegotiate the contracts from the ground up, putting everything in unambiguous language, and they ignored that offer. I gave them the opportunity, twice, to simply tear up our contracts, and we each go our separate ways, and they ignored those offers. I tried to go over their heads, to deal directly with their new corporate masters, and maybe find someone willing to deal in good faith, and they blocked all attempts to do so. (Try getting any officer of DC Comics to identify who they report to up the company ladder. I dare you.) In any case, without giving them details, I warned them months in advance that this moment was coming. I told them what I was about to do would be "both legal and ethical." Now it's happened.

Note that my contracts with DC Comics are still in force. I did nothing to break them, and cannot unilaterally end them. I still can't publish Fables comics through anyone but them. I still can't authorize a Fables movie through anyone but them. Nor can I license Fables toys nor lunchboxes, nor anything else. And they still have to pay me for the books they publish. And I'm not giving up on the other money they owe. One way or another, I intend to get my 50% of the money they've owed me for years for the Telltale Game and other things.

However, you, the new 100% owner of Fables never signed such agreements. For better or worse, DC and I are still locked together in this unhappy marriage, perhaps for all time.

But you aren't.

If I understand the law correctly (and be advised that copyright law is a mess; purposely vague and murky, and no two lawyers – not even those specializing in copyright and trademark law – agree on anything), you have the rights to make your Fables movies, and cartoons, and publish your Fables books, and manufacture your Fables toys, and do anything you want with your property, because it's your property.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/bill...ill-dc-do-now/

[Primal Slayer]

I've been waiting for years for WB to make a high end Fables show for HBO or even movie. They just sit on the property while Disney does Once Upon a Time that is Fables-lite.

[MRP]

I've been waiting for years for WB to make a high end Fables show for HBO or even movie. They just sit on the property while Disney does Once Upon a Time that is Fables-lite.

Why would someone have paid for a Fables license when you can do the same thing wit fairy tale characters just without the brand? Let's be real for a second and understand the nature of the business-I love Fables, but the brand wasn't going to bring in an increase of audience large enough to justify the additional expense of a license.


-M

[Hypo]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/bill...ill-dc-do-now/

Here's Willingham's post on it.

Fables Press Release

Subject: Fables Enters the Public Domain

15 September 2023

By Bill Willingham

For Immediate Release

The Lede

As of now, 15 September 2023, the comic book property called Fables, including all related Fables spin-offs and characters, is now in the public domain. What was once wholly owned by Bill Willingham is now owned by everyone, for all time. It’s done, and as most experts will tell you, once done it cannot be undone. Take-backs are neither contemplated nor possible.

Q: Why Did You Do This?

A number of reasons. I’ve thought this over for some time. In no particular order they are:

1) Practicality: When I first signed my creator-owned publishing contract with DC Comics, the company was run by honest men and women of integrity, who (for the most part) interpreted the details of that agreement fairly and above-board. When problems inevitably came up we worked it out, like reasonable men and women. Since then, over the span of twenty years or so, those people have left or been fired, to be replaced by a revolving door of strangers, of no measurable integrity, who now choose to interpret every facet of our contract in ways that only benefit DC Comics and its owner companies. At one time the Fables properties were in good hands, and now, by virtue of attrition and employee replacement, the Fables properties have fallen into bad hands.

Since I can’t afford to sue DC, to force them to live up to the letter and the spirit of our long-time agreements; since even winning such a suit would take ridiculous amounts of money out of my pocket and years out of my life (I’m 67 years old, and don’t have the years to spare), I’ve decided to take a different approach, and fight them in a different arena, inspired by the principles of asymmetric warfare. The one thing in our contract the DC lawyers can’t contest, or reinterpret to their own benefit, is that I am the sole owner of the intellectual property. I can sell it or give it away to whomever I want.

I chose to give it away to everyone. If I couldn’t prevent Fables from falling into bad hands, at least this is a way I can arrange that it also falls into many good hands. Since I truly believe there are still more good people in the world than bad ones, I count it as a form of victory.

2) Philosophy: In the past decade or so, my thoughts on how to reform the trademark and copyright laws in this country (and others, I suppose) have undergone something of a radical transformation. The current laws are a mishmash of unethical backroom deals to keep trademarks and copyrights in the hands of large corporations, who can largely afford to buy the outcomes they want.

In my template for radical reform of those laws I would like it if any IP is owned by its original creator for up to twenty years from the point of first publication, and then goes into the public domain for any and all to use. However, at any time before that twenty year span bleeds out, you the IP owner can sell it to another person or corporate entity, who can have exclusive use of it for up to a maximum of ten years. That’s it. Then it cannot be resold. It goes into the public domain. So then, at the most, any intellectual property can be kept for exclusive use for up to about thirty years, and no longer, without exception.

Of course, if I’m going to believe such radical ideas, what kind of hypocrite would I be if I didn’t practice them? Fables has been my baby for about twenty years now. It’s time to let it go. This is my first test of this process. If it works, and I see no legal reason why it won’t, look for other properties to follow in the future. Since DC, or any other corporate entity, doesn’t actually own the property, they don’t get a say in this decision.

Q: What Exactly Has DC Comics Done to Provoke This?

Too many things to list exhaustively, but here are some highlights: Throughout the years of my business relationship with DC, with Fables and with other intellectual properties, DC has always been in violation of their agreements with me. Usually it’s in smaller matters, like forgetting to seek my opinion on artists for new stories, or for covers, or formats of new collections and such. In those times, when called on it, they automatically said, “Sorry, we overlooked you again. It just fell through the cracks.” They use the “fell through the cracks” line so often, and so reflexively, that I eventually had to bar them from using it ever again. They are often late reporting royalties, and often under-report said royalties, forcing me to go after them to pay the rest of what’s owed.

Lately though their practices have grown beyond these mere annoyances, prompting some sort of showdown. First they tried to strong arm the ownership of Fables from me. When Mark Doyle and Dan Didio first approached me with the idea of bringing Fables back for its 20th anniversary (both gentlemen since fired from DC), during the contract negotiations for the new issues, their legal negotiators tried to make it a condition of the deal that the work be done as work for hire, effectively throwing the property irrevocably into the hands of DC. When that didn’t work their excuse was, “Sorry, we didn’t read your contract going into these negotiations. We thought we owned it.”

More recently, during talks to try to work out our many differences, DC officers admitted that their interpretation of our publishing agreement, and the following media rights agreement, is that they could do whatever they wanted with the property. They could change stories or characters in any way they wanted. They had no obligation whatsoever to protect the integrity and value of the IP, either from themselves, or from third parties (Telltale Games, for instance) who want to radically alter the characters, settings, history and premises of the story (I’ve seen the script they tried to hide from me for a couple of years). Nor did they owe me any money for licensing the Fables rights to third parties, since such a license wasn’t anticipated in our original publishing agreement.

When they capitulated on some of the points in a later conference call, promising on the phone to pay me back monies owed for licensing Fables to Telltale Games, for example, in the execution of the new agreement, they reneged on their word and offered the promised amount instead as a “consulting fee,” which avoided the precedent of admitting this was money owed, and included a non-disclosure agreement that would prevent me from saying anything but nice things about Telltale or the license.

And so on. There’s so much more, but these, as I said, are some of the highlights. At that point, since I disagreed on all of their new interpretations of our longstanding agreements, we were in conflict. They practically dared me to sue them to enforce my rights, knowing it would be a long and debilitating process. Instead I began to consider other ways to go.

Q: Are You Concerned at What DC Will Do Now?

No. I gave them years to do the right thing. I tried to reason with them, but you can’t reason with the unreasonable. They used these years to make soothing promises, tell lies about how dedicated they were towards working this out, and keep dragging things out as long as possible. I gave them an opportunity to renegotiate the contracts from the ground up, putting everything in unambiguous language, and they ignored that offer. I gave them the opportunity, twice, to simply tear up our contracts, and we each go our separate ways, and they ignored those offers. I tried to go over their heads, to deal directly with their new corporate masters, and maybe find someone willing to deal in good faith, and they blocked all attempts to do so. (Try getting any officer of DC Comics to identify who they report to up the company ladder. I dare you.) In any case, without giving them details, I warned them months in advance that this moment was coming. I told them what I was about to do would be “both legal and ethical.” Now it’s happened.

Note that my contracts with DC Comics are still in force. I did nothing to break them, and cannot unilaterally end them. I still can’t publish Fables comics through anyone but them. I still can’t authorize a Fables movie through anyone but them. Nor can I license Fables toys nor lunchboxes, nor anything else. And they still have to pay me for the books they publish. And I’m not giving up on the other money they owe. One way or another, I intend to get my 50% of the money they’ve owed me for years for the Telltale Game and other things.

However, you, the new 100% owner of Fables never signed such agreements. For better or worse, DC and I are still locked together in this unhappy marriage, perhaps for all time.

But you aren’t.

If I understand the law correctly (and be advised that copyright law is a mess; purposely vague and murky, and no two lawyers – not even those specializing in copyright and trademark law – agree on anything), you have the rights to make your Fables movies, and cartoons, and publish your Fables books, and manufacture your Fables toys, and do anything you want with your property, because it’s your property.

Mark Buckingham is free to do his version of Fables (and I dearly hope he does). Steve Leialoha is free to do his version of Fables (which I’d love to see). And so on. You don’t have to get my permission (but you might get my blessing, depending on your plans). You don’t have to get DC’s permission, or the permission of anyone else. You never signed the same agreements I did with DC Comics.

It was my absolute joy and pleasure to bring you Fables stories for the past twenty years. I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

[MRP]

The word "fables" isn't inherently copyrightable. So you could use the word as part of the title.

A very quick trademark search reveals there are 6 active trademarks for Fables in various fields. I didn't do an in depth search to see who holds those trademarks r what fields, but it can be trademarked for use in particular fields. DC/WB may be one of those holders for use in comics, books, media, etc. I am not sure. So whoever is going to attempt to use it needs to do their due diligence, a mistake will result in a cease and desist and probably some very hefty court costs if you try to fight it. And not having the resources to fight Warner/DC in court is one of the reasons Willingham cited for this move. Just because something possibly could be done, the logistics and affordability of doing it can be a non-starter.

-M

[Primal Slayer]

Why would someone have paid for a Fables license when you can do the same thing wit fairy tale characters just without the brand? Let's be real for a second and understand the nature of the business-I love Fables, but the brand wasn't going to bring in an increase of audience large enough to justify the additional expense of a license.


-M

Its an award winning brand. Studios do it all the time. Hello Percy Jackson. WB has owned DC for ages and could've done it.