Miss America (Madeline Joyce) Appreciation Thread 2023

[Phoenixx9]

I don't get a vote here, but if it was up to me, I'd definitely bring back Miss America. I don't care if it conflicts with Ms. America. If Supergirl and Power Girl can co-exist, so, too, can the Americas.

If she's dead, I'd credit her "vitality" powers for her resurrection and eternal youth. Just bring her back. Say that the other previously seen version of the character was an android/clone. Say that the Enclave or the High Evolutionary stole the original and kept her in cryo. Whatever works.

Imagine what it must be like to be a woman from the 1940s facing the challenges that women face today in our country. The stories and subplots pretty much writes itself. Retcon some of her history and relationships as necessary to bring her into the modern era.

And yes, there would be costume changes. The pajama skirt and head piece was cute, but artists can improve on that by leaps.

Make it happen, Marvel! Miss America.

Hey, I really like this idea!

Continuing onward from where you started, JudicatorPrime, they could say Madeline was not really dead, but in a stasis-state, as her Super-Vitality ramped up.

Madeline wakes up, digs herself out of the Mt Wundagore unmarked grave and starts to make her way back to America. Now her Vitality is so super-charged, that she has not aged and may not in the future.

In fact, a transfusion of her blood revives Robert Frank, her beloved and he returns to life!

[Digifiend]

Too bad they're not mutants, or they might've been back already. They're not averse to resurrecting people who died of old age (which both Miss America and Whizzer probably would've by now if they weren't killed) - that's Somnus's origin, he lived a full life, hid his powers, died of old age, and was brought back by his ex-lover Daken who he was with before he met his wife. Now he lives a new life, openly out as being a bisexual mutant, though at the price that he can't see his family any more. I think Destiny had died of old age too and was also brought back young.

[Phoenixx9]

Too bad they're not mutants, or they might've been back already. They're not averse to resurrecting people who died of old age (which both Miss America and Whizzer probably would've by now if they weren't killed) - that's Somnus's origin, he lived a full life, hid his powers, died of old age, and was brought back by his ex-lover Daken who he was with before he met his wife. Now he lives a new life, openly out as being a bisexual mutant, though at the price that he can't see his family any more. I think Destiny had died of old age too and was also brought back young.

Bob Frank was retconned as a mutant (his latent mutancy activated when his father transfused him with Mongoose blood after being bitten by an African Cobra). I do not believe Madeline was ever mentioned as a mutant.

Ah, I did not know that story of Sommus.

[JudicatorPrime]

If there was a current Invaders book, maybe something like that would be possible. But unless JMS wanted to do something like that in Captain America, I don't know how likely that would be.

It all depends on how much freedom a writer is given to revive the character. True, making her part of an Invaders team makes sense given the history, but in some ways, that history is a limiting factor. What typically happens is a character is rebooted and the original history is set on the back burner until the character is firmly re-established with an updated story. Then, gradually, you can re-introduce the old elements of their history, if a writer chooses to do so.

[Nevets]

Too bad they're not mutants, or they might've been back already. They're not averse to resurrecting people who died of old age (which both Miss America and Whizzer probably would've by now if they weren't killed) - that's Somnus's origin, he lived a full life, hid his powers, died of old age, and was brought back by his ex-lover Daken who he was with before he met his wife. Now he lives a new life, openly out as being a bisexual mutant, though at the price that he can't see his family any more. I think Destiny had died of old age too and was also brought back young.

The handbook page above references her as a mutant.

[JudicatorPrime]

Hey, I really like this idea!

Continuing onward from where you started, JudicatorPrime, they could say Madeline was not really dead, but in a stasis-state, as her Super-Vitality ramped up.

Madeline wakes up, digs herself out of the Mt Wundagore unmarked grave and starts to make her way back to America. Now her Vitality is so super-charged, that she has not aged and may not in the future.

In fact, a transfusion of her blood revives Robert Frank, her beloved and he returns to life!

Thanks!

If I brought Madeline back, I'd keep some of her history intact, but not all of it.

Her history of fighting in WWII is a keeper.

Her relationship with the Whizzer? Maybe not so much.

Whizzer pursued her romantically, they casually dated, but she had misgivings about being in a long-term relationship. She ultimately decided to leave him to pursue another romantic interest (and since I'm writing this, yeah, it would be someone that looks like Olympic champion Jesse Owens, lol).

But before Joyce could end her relationship with Frank, Whiz cuts a deal with some questionable parties to control her using the precursor of the Behavior Modification Device (B-Mod) made popular in Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme series. Tom Thumb may have been a hero on 712, but in 616 maybe he was a Nazi sympathizer and an Enclave scientist.

Tom agrees to use his B-Mod device on Madeline in exchange for Whizzer agreeing not to turn him into the authorities. But being irremediably diabolical, Tom double-crosses the Whizzer. His B-Mod device doesn't actually work to control the mind, but it is able to stimulate the mnemonic sectors of the brain and transfer memories from one mind to the next. (I'd suggest that some of the components of this device would be provided by Winston Frost of Frost Industries. Yep, Emma Frost's dad.)

Nevertheless, Tom Thumb successfully kidnaps Madeline with help from the Whizzer, but instead of Tom returning to the Whizzer a behaviorally adjusted, amorously inclined Madeline, Tom instead gives the Whizzer a synthetic woman identical in appearance to Joyce that he engineered using a combination of beta-stage technology pilfered from Horton, Nazi scientists, the Enclave and Wyndham. The "Madeline Joyce" that marries the Whizzer and later on gives birth to Nuklo wouldn't be the real Madeline at all. The real Madeline Joyce would be found still in Tom Thumb's "Hypernaculum" -- yet another callback to the 712 as that Earth's Tom Thumb made use of a suspended animation chamber called the "Hibernaculum."

For decades, Tom Thumb, which is also an alias, uses the real Madeline Joyce's DNA for various painful experiments. One of the products of that ill-gotten research turns out to be the superpowered being initially called Adam. And "Tom Thumb" turns out to be none other than Maris Morlak, one of the original founders of the Enclave. Once his experiments were completed, Morlak discarded Miss America in the Hypernaculum at the bottom of Challenger Deep believing that once the energy cells were depleted, the device would fail and she would perish. He will never know just how wrong he was on that point.

Decades after her initial kidnapping and betrayal, Miss America emerges from the Hypernaculum seething with vitality and power. A new creation over a century in the making.

[Phoenixx9]

Thanks!

If I brought Madeline back, I'd keep some of her history intact, but not all of it.

Her history of fighting in WWII is a keeper.

Her relationship with the Whizzer? Maybe not so much.

Whizzer pursued her romatnically, they casually dated, but she had misgivings about being in a long-term relationship. She ultimately decided to leave him to pursue another romantic interest (and since I'm writing this, yeah, it would be someone that looks like Olympic champion Jesse Owens, lol).

But before Joyce could end her relationship with Frank, Whiz cuts a deal with some questionable parties to control her using the precursor of the Behavior Modification Device (B-Mod) made popular in Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme series. Tom Thumb may have been a hero on 712, but in 616 maybe he was a Nazi sympathizer and an Enclave scientist.

Tom agrees to use his B-Mod device on Madeline in exchange for Whizzer agreeing not to turn him into the authorities. But being irremediably diabolical, Tom double-crosses the Whizzer. His B-Mod device doesn't actually work to control the mind, but it is able to stimulate the mnemonic sectors of the brain and transfer memories from one mind to the next. (I'd suggest that some of the components of this device would be provided by Winston Frost of Frost Industries. Yep, Emma Frost's dad.)

Nevertheless, Tom Thumb successfully kidnaps Madeline with help from the Whizzer, but instead of Tom returning to the Whizzer a behaviorally adjusted, amorously inclined Madeline, Tom instead gives the Whizzer a synthetic woman identical in appearance to Joyce that he engineered using a combination of beta-stage technology pilfered from Horton, Nazi scientists, the Enclave and Wyndham. The "Madeline Joyce" that marries the Whizzer and later on gives birth to Nuklo wouldn't be the real Madeline at all. The real Madeline Joyce would be found still in Tom Thumb's "Hypernaculum" -- yet another callback to the 712 as that Earth's Tom Thumb made use of a suspended animation chamber called the "Hibernaculum."

For decades, Tom Thumb, which is also an alias, uses the real Madeline Joyce's DNA for various painful experiments. One of the products of that ill-gotten research turns out to be the superpowered being initially called Adam. And "Tom Thumb" turns out to be none other than Maris Morlak, one of the original founders of the Enclave. Once his experiments were completed, Morlak discarded Miss America in the Hypernaculum at the bottom of Challenger Deep believing that once the energy cells were depleted, the device would fail and she would perish. He will never know just how wrong he was on that point.

Decades later, Miss America emerges from the Hypernaculum seething with vitality and power. A new creation over a century in the making.

Hmmn, certainly a twist and new ideas here!

I think they are very good and that would be an interesting story for sure!

[ARkadelphia]

Yeah, and those books were good. I am surprised they did not catch on.

I think Roy was too busy having fun with his "Rutland, Vermont" Halloween parties and Stan too busy having fun in general.

They need to do a Rutland trade paperback for Halloween one year

[Phoenixx9]

They need to do a Rutland trade paperback for Halloween one year

I know, right?

It would sell too.

[kcekada]

Yeah, and those books were good. I am surprised they did not catch on.

I think Roy was too busy having fun with his "Rutland, Vermont" Halloween parties and Stan too busy having fun in general.

The Cat has an excellent first issue, but the wheels fell off quickly after that. Roy Thomas co-plotted the first issue (the only one with a compelling story). Linda Fite was a good scripter, but the adversaries she used in issues 2, 3, and 4 weren't great, but I guess the Owl and Man-Bull were at least known villains. There were a few pages drawn by Ramona Fradon for issue 5, but she had redesigned the costume (and not for the better). Cat definitely had potential, but needed a good, regular creative team to keep it going -- and that never happened.

[Lonewolf36]

Both Miss America and Whizzer were confirmed to be mutants. Maybe they got rebirthed on Krakoa and we not seen them yet.

[kcekada]

I was always confused by her head dress. Sometimes it looks like a stewardesses cap, but other times, it's drawn as a full hood.

[Phoenixx9]

I was always confused by her head dress. Sometimes it looks like a stewardesses cap, but other times, it's drawn as a full hood.

She had different ones for you know, different moods. Sometimes it was more of a hood, while at other times a little mini-cap.

[JudicatorPrime]

I was always confused by her head dress. Sometimes it looks like a stewardesses cap, but other times, it's drawn as a full hood.

I've seen her wear the calot as depicted in the above Marvel Universe index, as well as a helmet, also shown above in MajorHoy's post. Should they bring her back and modernize her uniform, I suspect she'll be shown without a headdress of any kind.

[Gaastra]

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Miss america and patsy walker in the same title?

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