Ultimate Spider-Man by Jonathan Hickman and Marco Checchetto

[Frontier]

Assuming Hickman wants to stay in the spirit of Spider-Man (and I imagine he would have done another character if this version in no way resembles Spider-Man - Hickman is big enough that he doesn't need the Spider-Man IP to tell original stories), I doubt he would something like that. Hickman is a smart guy and knows there's a difference between Spider-Man and other IP he's written.

I see some people worrying over this, but I think it's like when Nolan was a consultant on MoS and some thought he would turn Superman into some realistic gymnast. Come on guys... they're smart creators and they know the difference.

I mean, it's not like Hickman hasn't taken a concept and turned it into something completely different or massively revamped it.

I'd say his FF run is probably the book where he was most true to the spirit of the title.

I dunno. Modern Hickman just feels so clinical and big on his ideas that I'm just not expecting any kind of traditional Spider-Man stuff in this. This is why I think we're going to get some kind of government or globe-hopping Spidey. Or maybe sci-fi Spidey.

[NC_Yankee]

I mean, it's not like Hickman hasn't taken a concept and turned it into something completely different or massively revamped it.

I'd say his FF run is probably the book where he was most true to the spirit of the title.

I dunno. Modern Hickman just feels so clinical and big on his ideas that I'm just not expecting any kind of traditional Spider-Man stuff in this. This is why I think we're going to get some kind of government or globe-hopping Spidey. Or maybe sci-fi Spidey.

It is interesting that Hickman is willing to do Spider-Man, based on the fact he does not do solo books and because he is not exactly on a street level. It is also interesting that Marvel is letting him, which will essentially be overshadowing Wells with this book. That said, I am the most enthusiastic about Spider-Man for the first time in a long time.

[The Urge]

Hickman was my number one choice to write spidey so I'm excited as hell!! I wish he was writing the main book but I'll take what I can get.

[Frontier]

It is interesting that Hickman is willing to do Spider-Man, based on the fact he does not do solo books and because he is not exactly on a street level. It is also interesting that Marvel is letting him, which will essentially be overshadowing Wells with this book. That said, I am the most enthusiastic about Spider-Man for the first time in a long time.

I don't know if I'd go that far. I know Hickman is a big name but this is still an Elseworld Spider-Man book.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I don't know if I'd go that far. I know Hickman is a big name but this is still an Elseworld Spider-Man book.

It's possible. USM overshadowed Mackie's ASM when it came out.

I mean, it's not like Hickman hasn't taken a concept and turned it into something completely different or massively revamped it.

I'd say his FF run is probably the book where he was most true to the spirit of the title.

I dunno. Modern Hickman just feels so clinical and big on his ideas that I'm just not expecting any kind of traditional Spider-Man stuff in this. This is why I think we're going to get some kind of government or globe-hopping Spidey. Or maybe sci-fi Spidey.

Sure, but I think that's mostly because he only did large-scale team books. He kinda had to treat those different from Spider-Man cuz they're so different.

His USM will hopefully be more like his AF1000.

[Leancarp900]

It's possible. USM overshadowed Mackie's ASM when it came out.

When the Ultimate Universe was starting out some 616 writers started blocking the Ultimate versions of their books. Waid blocked Ultimate F4 for a long time, while it was rumoured Busiek threatened to walk out if Marvel named the Ultimate versions of the Avengers "Ultimate Avengers" (hence why it was called Ultimates, although not sure if this one is true.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

When the Ultimate Universe was starting out some 616 writers started blocking the Ultimate versions of their books. Waid blocked Ultimate F4 for a long time, while it was rumoured Busiek threatened to walk out if Marvel named the Ultimate versions of the Avengers "Ultimate Avengers" (hence why it was called Ultimates, although not sure if this one is true.

I don't think Wells has the rep to do something like that, though. Especially not after ASM.

Him walking out would arguably bring more relief to more people, lol.

[Kurt Busiek]

It was rumoured Busiek threatened to walk out if Marvel named the Ultimate versions of the Avengers "Ultimate Avengers" (hence why it was called Ultimates, although not sure if this one is true.

I didn't threaten anything. I told my editor that if they did an Ultimate Avengers book it'd be time for me to leave Avengers, because Marvel's approach to those things was to promote the new Ultimate book as cool and cutting edge, not like that hidebound regular-universe series. And then the regular-universe series would need a new writer (or creative team) to be cool again.

After Ultimate Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man wasn't cool any more, until they brought in Straczynski about a year later. Then they could both be cool because they were both "new." Same with Ultimate X-Men -- the X-books weren't the cool ones any more, and they almost immediately brought in Grant Morrison, which solved the problem.

So an Ultimate Avengers book would make me the "problem," despite my book being one of Marvel's top sellers. So I'd need to go, and let someone else be "new."

That wasn't a threat -- I didn't say "don't do it or else." I said, "Look, if you do this, here's how it works. You will then have to 'fix' Avengers, and I don't want to be the one impeding progress."

So when they launched ULTIMATES (which is Ultimate Avengers whether it has Avengers in the title or not), it was immediately presented as "the Avengers get ultimized! This version will be cool!" So I finished up the story I was in the middle of and left, so they could get someone else (Geoff Johns) to be the new guy, and maybe make Penultimate Avengers cool again.

[But sure enough, even years later, Mark Millar still claims the book was called Ultimates because Avengers was an embarrassing loser and they didn't want to use the name, despite Avengers being one of Marvel's top ten books at the time and selling better than the bulk of their line. It's just how they worked with the Ultimate books.]

I wasn't walking out -- I did a fair amount of stuff for Marvel later, including JLA/AVENGERS -- it was just time to do things other than Avengers at that point. There's no way around it when your own publisher is going to treat your book as old and busted.

I don't think I had any clout in the situation -- nor do I think Waid could have prevented Ultimate FF even if he'd tried. As it was, he got fired from the book when it was a hit (and then hired back a week later), so it's not like Bill Jemas was intimidated by Mark, any more than he was by me.

kdb

[CaptainUniverse]

I didn't threaten anything. I told my editor that if they did an Ultimate Avengers book it'd be time for me to leave Avengers, because Marvel's approach to those things was to promote the new Ultimate book as cool and cutting edge, not like that hidebound regular-universe series. And then the regular-universe series would need a new writer (or creative team) to be cool again.

Your post-Heroes Reborn run on Avengers was always cool. It was the coolest of the cool!

[Daibhidh]

Astro City was cooler. (I hope that doesn't come over as 'I really liked your old stuff'.)

[Morgoth]

I don't think Wells has the rep to do something like that, though. Especially not after ASM.

Him walking out would arguably bring more relief to more people, lol.

Wells wouldn't really care, I think.
Spider-Office, on other hand, well... It’s just that we are already seeing people openly saying that ASM is now absolutely not important, since we have Hickman on USM. I can imagine them being unhappy about that.

[FFJamie94]

I didn't threaten anything. I told my editor that if they did an Ultimate Avengers book it'd be time for me to leave Avengers, because Marvel's approach to those things was to promote the new Ultimate book as cool and cutting edge, not like that hidebound regular-universe series. And then the regular-universe series would need a new writer (or creative team) to be cool again.

After Ultimate Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man wasn't cool any more, until they brought in Straczynski about a year later. Then they could both be cool because they were both "new." Same with Ultimate X-Men -- the X-books weren't the cool ones any more, and they almost immediately brought in Grant Morrison, which solved the problem.

So an Ultimate Avengers book would make me the "problem," despite my book being one of Marvel's top sellers. So I'd need to go, and let someone else be "new."

That wasn't a threat -- I didn't say "don't do it or else." I said, "Look, if you do this, here's how it works. You will then have to 'fix' Avengers, and I don't want to be the one impeding progress."

So when they launched ULTIMATES (which is Ultimate Avengers whether it has Avengers in the title or not), it was immediately presented as "the Avengers get ultimized! This version will be cool!" So I finished up the story I was in the middle of and left, so they could get someone else (Geoff Johns) to be the new guy, and maybe make Penultimate Avengers cool again.

[But sure enough, even years later, Mark Millar still claims the book was called Ultimates because Avengers was an embarrassing loser and they didn't want to use the name, despite Avengers being one of Marvel's top ten books at the time and selling better than the bulk of their line. It's just how they worked with the Ultimate books.]

I wasn't walking out -- I did a fair amount of stuff for Marvel later, including JLA/AVENGERS -- it was just time to do things other than Avengers at that point. There's no way around it when your own publisher is going to treat your book as old and busted.

I don't think I had any clout in the situation -- nor do I think Waid could have prevented Ultimate FF even if he'd tried. As it was, he got fired from the book when it was a hit (and then hired back a week later), so it's not like Bill Jemas was intimidated by Mark, any more than he was by me.

kdb

Thanks for the info, I do always love behind the scenes stuff because it's never of a greater conflict than most People believe.

I will just say that JLA/Avengers is honestly the kind of book that can't even happen once, and the fact it turned out great (with George Perez putting out the best pencils of his career) is a testament to the creative team.

On that note, I should really track down your Avengers run, I keep hearing good things.

[CaptainUniverse]

Astro City was cooler. (I hope that doesn't come over as 'I really liked your old stuff'.)

I really need to get caught up on Astro City, I think I have only read the first trade. At least, I think it was the first trade.

[Frontier]

It's possible. USM overshadowed Mackie's ASM when it came out.

True, but we're in a very different climate. I have my doubts a new Ultimate line is going to reach the heights of the original.

Sure, but I think that's mostly because he only did large-scale team books. He kinda had to treat those different from Spider-Man cuz they're so different.

His USM will hopefully be more like his AF1000.

Unless he turns Spidey into a large-scale book.

I didn't threaten anything. I told my editor that if they did an Ultimate Avengers book it'd be time for me to leave Avengers, because Marvel's approach to those things was to promote the new Ultimate book as cool and cutting edge, not like that hidebound regular-universe series. And then the regular-universe series would need a new writer (or creative team) to be cool again.

After Ultimate Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man wasn't cool any more, until they brought in Straczynski about a year later. Then they could both be cool because they were both "new." Same with Ultimate X-Men -- the X-books weren't the cool ones any more, and they almost immediately brought in Grant Morrison, which solved the problem.

So an Ultimate Avengers book would make me the "problem," despite my book being one of Marvel's top sellers. So I'd need to go, and let someone else be "new."

That wasn't a threat -- I didn't say "don't do it or else." I said, "Look, if you do this, here's how it works. You will then have to 'fix' Avengers, and I don't want to be the one impeding progress."

So when they launched ULTIMATES (which is Ultimate Avengers whether it has Avengers in the title or not), it was immediately presented as "the Avengers get ultimized! This version will be cool!" So I finished up the story I was in the middle of and left, so they could get someone else (Geoff Johns) to be the new guy, and maybe make Penultimate Avengers cool again.

[But sure enough, even years later, Mark Millar still claims the book was called Ultimates because Avengers was an embarrassing loser and they didn't want to use the name, despite Avengers being one of Marvel's top ten books at the time and selling better than the bulk of their line. It's just how they worked with the Ultimate books.]

I wasn't walking out -- I did a fair amount of stuff for Marvel later, including JLA/AVENGERS -- it was just time to do things other than Avengers at that point. There's no way around it when your own publisher is going to treat your book as old and busted.

I don't think I had any clout in the situation -- nor do I think Waid could have prevented Ultimate FF even if he'd tried. As it was, he got fired from the book when it was a hit (and then hired back a week later), so it's not like Bill Jemas was intimidated by Mark, any more than he was by me.

kdb

Thank you for clarifying Mr. Busiek!

[NC_Yankee]

True, but we're in a very different climate. I have my doubts a new Ultimate line is going to reach the heights of the original.

Unless he turns Spidey into a large-scale book.

Thank you for clarifying Mr. Busiek!

I agree 100% thank you Mr. Busiek. Especially because he took the time and effort to explain what happened ( context included) instead of a one or two sentence.