Ultimate Spider-Man by Jonathan Hickman and Marco Checchetto

[scarletspidey]

Indeed, he doesn't. I wouldn't be shocked if there's more than one spider, and Peter therefore isn't the only one bitten. Thus Peter ends up leading a team of spiders. Gwen, Miles, Anya, Cindy, Jessica. Or the other Parkers. The kids won't be born with powers, but could they be bitten and become the Ultimate Spider-Boy and Spider-Girl/Spiderling anyway?

and that's why we have the 4 alternate covers?

Not sure if I am more or less interested in that....

I know I will buy this day 1 though

[wleakr]

The dominant discourse on this forum is that the Spider-Marriage die-hards are the majority and nobody really likes Amazing Spider-Man. If that is the case then Ultimate Spider-Man should easily outsell Amazing Spider-Man month after month after month and have a very long life ahead of it.

This.

If this is really what the majority wants, I would expect to see a sizable portion of Amazing sells drop with a corresponding shift increase to Ultimate.

We know the first couple issues of Ultimate will sell through the roof. After that, we shall see how it goes...

[Coop]

I don't really think USM is a viable alternative for people who want the marriage back in ASM so I don't really view it that way. At the end of the day it's an alt Universe about a very different person with very different histories and likely relationships to the 616 Peter. As with most things, there's a lot more nuance to the situation beyond "marriage good vs marriage bad". The underlying stories actually have to be good too. That's why I never bothered with RYV. When it was announced it was Slott and from there I never paid attention enough to know the writers changed.

I'll be buying USM, but I was always in front when Hickman was announced. I think he's a great fit and that his character stuff is top class. The marriage status quo is gravy.

[Moxxi517]

I don't really think USM is a viable alternative for people who want the marriage back in ASM so I don't really view it that way. At the end of the day it's an alt Universe about a very different person with very different histories and likely relationships to the 616 Peter. As with most things, there's a lot more nuance to the situation beyond "marriage good vs marriage bad". The underlying stories actually have to be good too. That's why I never bothered with RYV. When it was announced it was Slott and from there I never paid attention enough to know the writers changed.

I'll be buying USM, but I was always in front when Hickman was announced. I think he's a great fit and that his character stuff is top class. The marriage status quo is gravy.

Personally I will be happy seeing PeterMJ in an alternate universe even if there individual histories are different. As long as the spirit of the character is still there. And with this being hickman, it seems like a pretty safe bet to say that it will be.

But this is basically what I meant by saying that the ASM brand is too strong. A large number of people want things happen to ASM Peter because that is the "real" spider-man. A large number of people collect variant covers for ASM that I don't think they will be for USM. (Cause ASM is perceived to have more speculator value cause again, it is the brand of ASM). USM is a strong brand as well, with a status quo that fans have been pining for for a long time. So I'm personally optimistic about the sales. But it's impossible to say how all these factors will play out when comparing ASM and USM sales. And I think it's extra impossible to really extrapolate from that to say anything about how ASM readers feel about the marriage.

The sales will be the sales, and we can make some conclusions about that when they come. But it seems like some people are jumping out the gate to create an impossible standard for USM to live up to in order to say: "see, now shut up about the book being horrible". Like honestly, I'm not sure that the original USM would have been defined as a success by this standard.

[Moxxi517]

The sales will be the sales, and we can make some conclusions about that when they come. But it seems like some people are jumping out the gate to create an impossible standard for USM to live up to in order to say: "see, now shut up about the book being horrible". Like honestly, I'm not sure that the original USM would have been defined as a success by this standard.

Screen Shot 2023-10-30 at 11.00.18 AM.jpg

This is basically what I am trying to get at, in its first 25 issues. USM outsold ASM 9/25 times which I would consider wildly successful for a side book. And that's like arguably the most successful side book ever written, right? I'm not sure what I would actually define as a success for USM the newer. But selling 25,000 units more than ASM consistently, is not it. Just like food for thought I guess.

Edit: I took my numbers from this site: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...2/2002-08.html

[Lee]

But this is basically what I meant by saying that the ASM brand is too strong. A large number of people want things happen to ASM Peter because that is the "real" spider-man.

That's the buying audience's choice. None of it is written in stone. Ultimate Spider-Man will be available to buy wherever Amazing Spider-Man is available to buy, just like Renew Your Vows was. Everyone has the same choice.

I agree with you that "the continuing adventures of the mainline comics Spider-Man" has proven to be more of a draw for the readership than "the adventures of a married Spider-Man". But the narrative on this forum is that Spider-Man's marital status is the most important factor, that the people desperate for married Peter/MJ are the majority.

This new Ultimate Spider-Man is like the fourth or fifth opportunity for the Spider-Marriage enthusiasts to prove that they're the majority and send a message to Marvel that married Spider-Man trumps all other versions.

They can do that if there's enough of them. Ultimate Spider-Man could wipe the floor with Amazing Spider-Man in the charts month after month after month for years on end.

[Vortex85]

I agree with you that "the continuing adventures of the mainline comics Spider-Man" has proven to be more of a draw for the readership than "the adventures of a married Spider-Man". But the narrative on this forum is that Spider-Man's marital status is the most important factor, that the people desperate for married Peter/MJ are the majority.

I'm not sure I have ever seen people claim here that Spider-Man's marital status is the most important factor in the comics for sales. That is simply not the case. I have said repeatedly on this forum that the marriage does not seem to factor into sales much. I have said this as an avid marriage fan and someone who thinks that yes, most fans have wanted Spider-Man to be married again post-OMD. However, the majority of fans seem to be 616 collectors regardless of status quo, and the minority drop or add the book based a few factors. The marriage may be one of those, but that is a minority of fans that will drop or add the book based on that. There are also pro-marriage fans that are ok with Peter and MJ in a relationship in the main continuity and the marriage does not have to happen. I am one of those. I will buy the book simply based one them being together, that was enough for me.

There are going to be a variety of factors that play into whether or not the new Ultimate comics are successful. Spider-Man being married is one of those, but probably not even the biggest one. Judging by twitter you would think everyone is happy about it, but if you look on youtube, reactions in comments are mixed. Many are saying too little too late, there are also many who are burnt out on the off and on again of Peter and MJ and have become apathetic to their relationship in the past few years.

[Tapioca Blitzkrieg]

That's the buying audience's choice. None of it is written in stone. Ultimate Spider-Man will be available to buy wherever Amazing Spider-Man is available to buy, just like Renew Your Vows was. Everyone has the same choice.

I agree with you that "the continuing adventures of the mainline comics Spider-Man" has proven to be more of a draw for the readership than "the adventures of a married Spider-Man". But the narrative on this forum is that Spider-Man's marital status is the most important factor, that the people desperate for married Peter/MJ are the majority.

This new Ultimate Spider-Man is like the fourth or fifth opportunity for the Spider-Marriage enthusiasts to prove that they're the majority and send a message to Marvel that married Spider-Man trumps all other versions.

They can do that if there's enough of them. Ultimate Spider-Man could wipe the floor with Amazing Spider-Man in the charts month after month after month for years on end.

I might be mistaken, but i am not under the impression anybody on here has ever claimed that Pete/MJ being married or not was THE most important factor in the comic, save for when one would tie them not being together intrinsically to OMD and all its ills.

Anyway, I don't even care much about sales as long as they are considered enough to keep the book i enjoy afloat. If that means stomping ASM so be it, if not, that's fine too. Editorial is set on their ways and have been since way back when, if this book is a major blow to OMD and a major leap towards ASM undergoing major changes that'd be awesome, if it's just a chink in the armor i'll be satisfied too as long as the stories are good and i have a book with Spider-Man on the shelves that i actually enjoy.(Miles not withstanding)

[Vegeta]

Hickman has written Peter before in small doses but seemed to do a decent enough job capturing his persona, I look forward to it. I also LOVE that Peter gets his powers AFTER the kids were born, so he will be doing the actual "superheroing" and I don't have to read about Annie or whomever with Peter only in a supporting role. (Provided they don't immediately come up with some gimmick to also give the kids powers.)

Of course, with the altered timeline I wonder what villains he will face. Particularly since some of the best have such personal connections to Peter (The Osborns, Venom, Lizard).

[Daibhidh]

I agree with you that "the continuing adventures of the mainline comics Spider-Man" has proven to be more of a draw for the readership than "the adventures of a married Spider-Man".

Well, that's a false dichotomy, isn't it? Because what people want to see is the continuing adventures of the Peter and Mary Jane who got married in Amazing Spider-man Annual 21 and told each other they'd be together forever in To Have and To Hold.

Besides, if I remember right weren't you telling me that in your view Spider-man shouldn't have continuing adventures any more than Classic Doctor Who had continuing adventures? That in your opinion just as McCoy's Doctor was not the same character as Hartnell's Grandfather or Pertwee's UNIT scientific advisor, so Wells' Peter should only nominally be the same Peter as Spencer's Peter or Michelinie's Peter or Stern's Peter or Lee/Ditko's Peter? Assuming that's typical, it seems that the pro-marriage people care more about following the continuing adventures of Earth-616 Peter specifically than the non-pro-marriage people, who don't think the Peter they follow should be a single Peter who has continuing adventures.

[Lee]

Well, that's a false dichotomy, isn't it? Because what people want to see is the continuing adventures of the Peter and Mary Jane who got married in Amazing Spider-man Annual 21 and told each other they'd be together forever in To Have and To Hold.

That option isn't available to purchase.

When presented with Amazing Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Girl, more people chose the former. When presented with Amazing Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, more people chose the former. When presented with Amazing Spider-Man and Spider-Man: Lost Hunt, more people chose the former.

Those were the options the audience was presented with, and the purchasing decisions the audience made.

Besides, if I remember right weren't you telling me that in your view Spider-man shouldn't have continuing adventures any more than Classic Doctor Who had continuing adventures? That in your opinion just as McCoy's Doctor was not the same character as Hartnell's Grandfather or Pertwee's UNIT scientific advisor, so Wells' Peter should only nominally be the same Peter as Spencer's Peter or Michelinie's Peter or Stern's Peter or Lee/Ditko's Peter? Assuming that's typical, it seems that the pro-marriage people care more about following the continuing adventures of Earth-616 Peter specifically than the non-pro-marriage people, who don't think the Peter they follow should be a single Peter who has continuing adventures.

You're misremembering. I said the entirety of Spider-Man isn't intended to function or be engaged with as a single cohesive story. That's true of every fictional character that's been running for decades and gone through dozens of creators. I didn't say there shouldn't be continuing adventures.

[Kevinroc]

That option isn't available to purchase.

When presented with Amazing Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Girl, more people chose the former. When presented with Amazing Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows, more people chose the former. When presented with Amazing Spider-Man and Spider-Man: Lost Hunt, more people chose the former.

Those were the options the audience was presented with, and the purchasing decisions the audience made.

One of those titles is also tied to the main universe, which gives it a structural advantage over the other title.

But I noticed you didn't mention that at all.

[TinkerSpider]

That option isn't available to purchase.

Exactly. That’s the issue. And that’s why everything else presented is a false dichotomy.

Those were the options the audience was presented with, and the purchasing decisions the audience made.

And when Peter and MJ were married during the Todd McFarlane years and into the 1990s, more people bought Amazing Spider-Man than before or since.

You're misremembering. I said the entirety of Spider-Man isn't intended to function or be engaged with as a single cohesive story. That's true of every fictional character that's been running for decades and gone through dozens of creators.

That’s not true.

There are soap operas that have run for more than fifty years that are one story. General Hospital, for one.

Star Wars is one story. There is the EU/Legends, true, but it was also one story across games, novels, comics for decades.

I don't know enough about Doctor Who, but it is my layman's understanding that the TV series is also one story, with regerenating doctors to account for actors leaving the role (don't know how the books and ancillary media play into the overall story, however, and if they are considered canon or not - but then there are plenty of non-canon Spider-Man stories out there as well).

Star Trek is pretty much one story, with Leonard Nimoy's Spock providing the bridge between the original timeline and the Kelvin timeline (but I also don't know how the books and ancillary media play into the overall story - but again, the same goes for Marvel. There is the canon story and then there are non-canon yet produced by Marvel stories).

And Marvel likes to pride itself on having a single continuity, unlike DC.

[Ursalink]

More of the same, I'm sick of this!!!

I don't want to see another reality with Peter and Mary Jane married, I want Earth 616's Spider-Marriage restored!!!

Also, the idea of Peter never been Spider-Man until an adult and yet got married with MJ sounds implausible. Don't you think Peter's youth would have been very different without the Spider-Powers? Not to mention Peter could have ended up with Gwen or even Liz Allan.

[Moxxi517]

More of the same, I'm sick of this!!!

I don't want to see another reality with Peter and Mary Jane married, I want Earth 616's Spider-Marriage restored!!!

Also, the idea of Peter never been Spider-Man until an adult and yet got married with MJ sounds implausible. Don't you think Peter's youth would have been very different without the Spider-Powers? Not to mention Peter could have ended up with Gwen or even Liz Allan.

I don't wanna say "buy the book because people will be annoying in comment sections about this." But people will be annoying in comment sections about this

Also Peter's youth would have been very different w/o Spider powers. But he's still Peter Parker, he was still raised by Aunt May and Uncle Ben. The question of how these different circumstances changed him as a person, IS interesting. And genuinely one that hasn't been explored too thoroughly given how old the character is. I mean it's not a replacement for 616, but everything I've heard suggests that it will be a good spider-man story.

And I mean ending up with Gwen or Liz Allan could have happened I guess. But like ending up with MJ is just as if not more plausible, and it's the most fun result. Cause like MJ is the most interesting character. So I'm happy to see that explored from the jump rather than drawn out over time.