Ultimate Spider-Man by Jonathan Hickman and Marco Checchetto

[GeorgiaDawg]

I’m invested in 616 Peter and just tired of paying extra for AU. I’m pro marriage but tI just feel irritated that a character who progressed until the 21st century now needs AUs because of some bizarre anti marriage rule. Great just blam! Married with a family. Will we ever see Peter and MJ actually have a family and grow as it grows. No! Because action and concept and marketing to a room of no one is more important to marvel spidery staff than character development

[Daibhidh]

But I'll near guarantee if "Ultimate Jackpot" became a thing, and Peter and MJ became a crime fighting couple, the majority of people that complained about Mary Jane being a superhero would suddenly be talking about how awesome it was to watch MJ and Peter smacking down baddies together as a power couple.

Well, it's a bit insulting to say you understand what people complaining that MJ is a superhero would like better than they do. But is it true?

Spinneret was a popular character, but when Peter and MJ became a couple in the main continuity, the sales of RYV fell to the point it was cancelled. So it looks like Peter/MJ without powers in the main continuity is preferred to the crime fighting couple in an alternate continuity. But maybe that isn't the case; interpreting sales is a dark art.

So, more personally, I compose a lot of Peter/MJ fanfic with MJ having powers. MJ getting powers is fun to write. MJ having powers when Peter doesn't is also fun to write. But MJ and Peter both having powers as a status quo is not as fun to write as Peter/MJ without powers.

That's one of my biggest complaints about Jackpot. MJ getting powers should be fun. They've done it in about as unfun a way as they could. She's got a power set that gives her no agency and has no basis in her character. She's an actor, not a gambler. They've taken a character whose formative event was rejecting the tradional feminine role as self-sacrficing caregiver by leaving her sister and her sister's children, and made her motivated by her two dead children whom she had no real choice in adopting. She's had no agency in deciding to become a superhero. She's bounced into taking up superheroics by Felicia (with Paul and Tony Stark conspiring behind her back). Felicia tells her she's ready to be a superhero: if Mary Jane were really ready to be a superhero Felicia wouldn't need to tell her.

One could just otherwise ignore it and hope it gets retconned later. But now that's how MJ gets powers. All future storylines in which MJ gets powers have been stepped on. We'll never have the fun of it.

[Tuck]

I think it is unreasonable to not at least give the book a chance. How often do people get everything they want? But just cause it isn’t 616 or whatever doesn’t mean it’s a cop out.

It depends. I'm pro-marriage . . . in 616. My main issue is that OMD broke the timeline (and you know, a hero making a deal with the devil). If Pete and MJ had never been married in 616, I'd probably be lukewarm on them potentially getting married, thinking it would be interesting and new, but not vital.

I'd be more interested in an AU that split from 616 at the the point of OMD. But I imagine Marvel would consider that too similar to ASM.

In either case, I'll check out this book when it hits Unlimited, even though I'm not really a Hickman fan. (That's the beauty of Marvel Unlimited, no risk)

[Crazyspideyfan]

This makes the story Hickman wrote for Amazing Fantasy 1000 hit a lot harder, where it’s 616 Peter saying he feels as if he can’t handle it anymore as if it’s his destiny to suffer, and is basically told he has to, because he’s Spider-Man. Almost feels like a real world analogy to how 616 Peter has been through the most history out of any other Marvel character (most issues), but has to keep going because HE is the mainstream Spider-Man from Amazing Fantasy 15

[Coop]

I agree with a lot of posts here. This is separate from 616 and not a sufficient replacement for anyone upset at the OMD status quo.

I do think that explosive sales on this is the best path we have towards showing the editorial preference for unmarried 616 Spider-Man is worth reconsidering. But I don't think anyone should buy this book just on the chance it will impact 616.

I'm buying it because Hickman has credit in the bank with me. I think he's done my favorite Marvel stories in the last 20 years. Both his Avengers and X-Men runs shook the mailese of big two comics off me and got me reading and buying again. I would have picked USM up regardless of the marriage or not.

[GeorgiaDawg]

I agree with a lot of posts here. This is separate from 616 and not a sufficient replacement for anyone upset at the OMD status quo.

I do think that explosive sales on this is the best path we have towards showing the editorial preference for unmarried 616 Spider-Man is worth reconsidering. But I don't think anyone should buy this book just on the chance it will impact 616.

I'm buying it because Hickman has credit in the bank with me. I think he's done my favorite Marvel stories in the last 20 years. Both his Avengers and X-Men runs shook the mailese of big two comics off me and got me reading and buying again. I would have picked USM up regardless of the marriage or not.

While this story does trigger my exhaustion about 616 issues and worry this signals Mephistopheles ultimate triumph over MJ and Peter.

I would agree with Hickman’s credit plus this is a completely different take on Peter’s origin, even if the headline is a married Peter and MJ, that seems to be a small part of the theme and concept of the story which I can concede would make it a tempting book.

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

I will definitely pre-order this trade as soon as it shows up on Amazon. I love the premise and I'm looking forward to seeing what Hickman does with it. At least we know the writing will be good.

It'll be really interesting to see what a Peter Parker who has become an adult without his Spidey life constantly getting in the way looks like. Who are his friends? Does he have a career? How did he get together with MJ? What role will Uncle Ben and Aunt May play in his origin? This feels fresh in a very exciting way.

[Garlador]

I will definitely pre-order this trade as soon as it shows up on Amazon. I love the premise and I'm looking forward to seeing what Hickman does with it. At least we know the writing will be good.

It'll be really interesting to see what a Peter Parker who has become an adult without his Spidey life constantly getting in the way looks like. Who are his friends? Does he have a career? How did he get together with MJ? What role will Uncle Ben and Aunt May play in his origin? This feels fresh in a very exciting way.

Every time I hear certain fans say Mary Jane wouldn't have gone for Peter if he wasn't Spider-Man, I shake my head. She LOVED that nerdy dweeb.

[Daibhidh]

Every time I hear certain fans say Mary Jane wouldn't have gone for Peter if he wasn't Spider-Man, I shake my head. She LOVED that nerdy dweeb.

Where is that image from?
On a similar note, people say that Peter would never have got the confidence to get together with Mary Jane if he hadn't been Spider-man; but it's not as if Peter in the Ditko/Romita-era was consoling himself with the thought that he was Spider-man for failings in his personal life.

[GeorgiaDawg]

Every time I hear certain fans say Mary Jane wouldn't have gone for Peter if he wasn't Spider-Man, I shake my head. She LOVED that nerdy dweeb.

Those same fans tend to also tend to view her as a heartless partier who dumps or coldly shuts down anyone who needs sympathy. When the reality was that was her persona to escape the world around her, it was what she used instead of drugs to escape. Her aunt Anna and Peter and his friends were her biggest helps to stay grounded.

Honestly when it comes to relationships. MJ is The only real friend Peter has because while he has a lot of people he cares for, he only seems to invest in people who have given him a place to live or helped him financially. I think flash after he was injured by tombstone pointed out Peter was just really around than actually doing anything to be his friend. I guess he has Jonah now if MJ isn’t around which still seems bizarre if you want a Spider-Man who matches media depictions.

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

Every time I hear certain fans say Mary Jane wouldn't have gone for Peter if he wasn't Spider-Man, I shake my head. She LOVED that nerdy dweeb.

I totally agree and I didn't mean to imply that she wouldn't have been interested in him. I just meant more in terms of being interested in how their love story would have played out without super-heroics mixed in. Did he ever date Gwen? If Gwen wasn't killed by the Goblin does that mean Peter dumped Gwen for MJ? I just think it's going to be interesting to see a different spin on how we ended up here in this universe.

I'm mostly interested in how Uncle Ben will play into this version of the origin. I don't know if I can see an older and self sufficient Peter using his powers selfishly right of the bat like he does in 616

Adore that panel btw

[Coop]

It could be cool if Uncle Ben or Aunt May similarly die due to Peter's irresponsibility without a Spider-Man related incident causing it. He could have spent his young adult life and early adulthood carrying that grief and feeling of responsibility with no way to act on it.

One of the things that has me most interested in this books is some of the interviews Hickman gave during House/Powers of X about destructive storytelling versus additive storytelling and how he felt stories that come in and blow everything up like say (my example not his) Avengers Disassembled don't really work as well anymore. If I can find the exact quote when I'm off work I'll add it into this thread later. But basically I got the sense that Hickman isn't looking to tell misery porn. Obviously bad things will happen. Obviously there will be a dramatic stakes. But I get the sense that he's not looking to do misery porn or farm outrage.

This is also the flagship book coming out of Ultimate Invasion and Ultimate Comics. The first book Hickman is dropping within this new universe which is very different from the 616 and the old Ultimate Universe. Run behind the scenes by a much more manicial version of the Illuminati whose rise to power was hand crafted by a time travelling Maker who altered the flow of history to eliminate threats to his percieved utopia. And now Ultimate Reed (not Maker) and Tony Stark are on a quest to fight the current of history the Maker has set them on. And apparently one of step on that path is creating Spider-Man

I'm very interested to see where it goes, far beyond just having Peter and MJ be married.

[Chubistian]

I'm really excited for Ultimate Spider-Man. So, in Ultimate, we get married Peter with children, and in ASM, single Peter with no kids. Fun balance, considering how was the 616 status quo when the og Ultimate Spider-Man launched, and how it was a young Peter there.

Great time to be a Spider-Man fan, with the newest videogame and the sequel to Across the Spider-Verse coming next year. Now, I just need a Ps5...

I don't hate Wells' run, though I think the MJ subplot is pretty bad. Really curious to see how Hickman treats Peter day to day life. Checchetto is a nice match, his style doesn't resemble Bagley's at all, so, except for bringing Bryan Hitch back in the line, this Ultimate Universe is proving to be its own thing

[Digifiend]

If this Peter gets his powers as an adult then he probably never worked at the Daily Bugle. He signed on to sell pics of Spider-Man, otherwise he doesn’t have any reason to be there. Things will be really interesting if Uncle Ben never died.

If Ben still died when he was 15, he would've still got his job at the Bugle. He would've just been taking photos of something else instead of Spider-Man. He took it for the money, not to specifically sell photos of Spidey. After all, Jonah always accompanied his photos with negative headlines, so it wasn't great publicity for Spidey, he only kept selling the photos to Jonah because he needed the dollars. He'd certainly no longer be there once he got his degree and could take a job in science though.

It depends. I'm pro-marriage . . . in 616. My main issue is that OMD broke the timeline (and you know, a hero making a deal with the devil). If Pete and MJ had never been married in 616, I'd probably be lukewarm on them potentially getting married, thinking it would be interesting and new, but not vital.

I'd be more interested in an AU that split from 616 at the the point of OMD. But I imagine Marvel would consider that too similar to ASM.

In either case, I'll check out this book when it hits Unlimited, even though I'm not really a Hickman fan. (That's the beauty of Marvel Unlimited, no risk)

A split after OMD could work... and actually, kind of already exists. You see, MC2 (which started in the late 90s and had the present day stuff happen about 20-25 years ago) is a pre-OMD status quo, and also doesn't use anyone introduced that late except for Arana. So you could say MC2 is a world where heroes who debuted later, or just before it - like most of the Young Avengers and Champions - just never existed, and OMD never happened either in that reality. That's why Gerry Drew is the main Spider-Man of that era and not the now more-logical Miles Morales (MC2 Peter stopped being Spidey due to an injury).

[Jman27]

Those same fans tend to also tend to view her as a heartless partier who dumps or coldly shuts down anyone who needs sympathy. When the reality was that was her persona to escape the world around her, it was what she used instead of drugs to escape. Her aunt Anna and Peter and his friends were her biggest helps to stay grounded.

Honestly when it comes to relationships. MJ is The only real friend Peter has because while he has a lot of people he cares for, he only seems to invest in people who have given him a place to live or helped him financially. I think flash after he was injured by tombstone pointed out Peter was just really around than actually doing anything to be his friend. I guess he has Jonah now if MJ isn’t around which still seems bizarre if you want a Spider-Man who matches media depictions.

yeah I recently read that issue Flash was correct regarding his relationship with Peter. Hell even Peter relationship with Harry should be suspected cause even though Peter says Harry is his best friend he doesn't really display it