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  1. #856
    Mighty Member Garlador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    As much as I'm interested in this reality, this is just another "alternative reality" that Marvel can get rid off as soon as it gets tired of it. That's why I want 616's Spider-Man being the one with Mary Jane here.

    I have to say some things here:

    1║) Peter with MJ and a couple of kids, a boy and a girl. Have you noticed this is similar to the escenario from "Spider-Man: Life's Story"?

    2║) I'm pretty sure I'm not the only who noticed it, but don't you think Marvel is mocking on us? I mean, Peter with beard and glasses, with Mary Jane, and two children (a boy and a girl). I just canít stop thinking about the whole Paul thing here. If this is a joke, Marvel is seriously looking for a beating.
    This is one case where I doubt this is a coordinated effort to "mock" the 616 readers. This is under a completely different editorial umbrella, and Hickman likely doesn't really even care about what's going on in the 616 whatsoever.

    I'll also say that I'm not someone as hung up on canon as some, but I acknowledge the 616 will always get the brunt of the marketing and sales, even if it's through sheer subscriber inertia (some of these people have been reading ASM for over 50+ years and aren't stopping anytime soon, no matter what). But a new continuity doesn't prevent this from becoming one of the best Spider-Man stories, potentially. When I ask DC fans to tell me the best Superman and Batman stories, I get answers like "The Dark Knight Returns" and "All-Star Superman", neither of which are in the "main" continuity. If a truly exceptional Spider-Man story comes out beyond the constraints of the 616 and excels in spite of - or because of - its deviations from the 616, then that's a win for comic fans the world over.
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  2. #857
    Fantastic Member Hurricane Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garlador View Post
    This is one case where I doubt this is a coordinated effort to "mock" the 616 readers. This is under a completely different editorial umbrella, and Hickman likely doesn't really even care about what's going on in the 616 whatsoever.

    I'll also say that I'm not someone as hung up on canon as some, but I acknowledge the 616 will always get the brunt of the marketing and sales, even if it's through sheer subscriber inertia (some of these people have been reading ASM for over 50+ years and aren't stopping anytime soon, no matter what). But a new continuity doesn't prevent this from becoming one of the best Spider-Man stories, potentially. When I ask DC fans to tell me the best Superman and Batman stories, I get answers like "The Dark Knight Returns" and "All-Star Superman", neither of which are in the "main" continuity. If a truly exceptional Spider-Man story comes out beyond the constraints of the 616 and excels in spite of - or because of - its deviations from the 616, then that's a win for comic fans the world over.
    If Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man ends up being for Spider-Man what TDKR or All-Star Superman are for Batman and Superman, I will be over the moon.

  3. #858
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Billy View Post
    If Hickman's Ultimate Spider-Man ends up being for Spider-Man what TDKR or All-Star Superman are for Batman and Superman, I will be over the moon.
    That would be amazing. Especially if future adaptions draw from it.
    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  4. #859
    Fantastic Member Hurricane Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    That would be amazing. Especially if future adaptions draw from it.
    Honestly even if Hickman somehow manages to botch this comic, I adore the idea of exploring what it'd be like for Peter becoming Spider-Man as a grown man so much that I really hope the next live action reboot we get of Peter on the big screen uses that as the starting point. I'll rip my hair out if we just go right back to Peter in high school all over again!

    Besides, even with recent successes like Zdarsky's Life Story or older classics like Kraven's Last Hunt or Bendis' original USM run, I feel like we haven't quite gotten any specific Spider-Man comic that reaches those same highs as comics like All-Star Superman or TDKR hit for Superman or Batman. There is absolutely a phenomenal tapestry of eras, stories and runs out there for the character, but I'm not sure there's been something quite on par with those giants.

    That said though, I do think Spidey more than makes up for it on the strength of both Spider-Verse films and Spider-Man 2 utterly mopping the floor with 99% of the competition of comic book films.

  5. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Billy View Post
    Honestly even if Hickman somehow manages to botch this comic, I adore the idea of exploring what it'd be like for Peter becoming Spider-Man as a grown man so much that I really hope the next live action reboot we get of Peter on the big screen uses that as the starting point. I'll rip my hair out if we just go right back to Peter in high school all over again!

    Besides, even with recent successes like Zdarsky's Life Story or older classics like Kraven's Last Hunt or Bendis' original USM run, I feel like we haven't quite gotten any specific Spider-Man comic that reaches those same highs as comics like All-Star Superman or TDKR hit for Superman or Batman. There is absolutely a phenomenal tapestry of eras, stories and runs out there for the character, but I'm not sure there's been something quite on par with those giants.

    That said though, I do think Spidey more than makes up for it on the strength of both Spider-Verse films and Spider-Man 2 utterly mopping the floor with 99% of the competition of comic book films.
    When i was growing up i was big into graphic novels of all kinds, from the big 2 to the indies. It always stood out to me how the greatest hero in comics IMO - Spidey, that is - didn't have a GN or compilation that could compare to the meditation on character and conceptual inovations of the TDKR or A-SSM. Kraven was and still is the majority pick for goat Spider-Man story, and as it's own thing i think it stands on it's own merits, albeit constrained by editorial and continuity of(multiple) an ongoing monthly.

    Spidey IMO hasn't had that stand-alone, contained character dissection that came from a unique creative vision, the story that redefines the ethos of Spider-Man through future stories to come. Those inovations usually came in the form of whole runs on the main continuity.

    I wish we could get someone like Hickman or Grant Morrisson to go crazy on a few dozen pages and really make us rethink what we think we know about SM and it's characters in a creative and inovative way.

  6. #861
    Fantastic Member Hurricane Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapioca Blitzkrieg View Post
    When i was growing up i was big into graphic novels of all kinds, from the big 2 to the indies. It always stood out to me how the greatest hero in comics IMO - Spidey, that is - didn't have a GN or compilation that could compare to the meditation on character and conceptual inovations of the TDKR or A-SSM. Kraven was and still is the majority pick for goat Spider-Man story, and as it's own thing i think it stands on it's own merits, albeit constrained by editorial and continuity of(multiple) an ongoing monthly.

    Spidey IMO hasn't had that stand-alone, contained character dissection that came from a unique creative vision, the story that redefines the ethos of Spider-Man through future stories to come. Those inovations usually came in the form of whole runs on the main continuity.

    I wish we could get someone like Hickman or Grant Morrisson to go crazy on a few dozen pages and really make us rethink what we think we know about SM and it's characters in a creative and inovative way.
    While I won't entirely agree with you on who the best superhero in comics is, I do completely agree that Spidey has never really had a clear and notable example of "that one graphic novel" that not only completely captured the spirit of the mythology, but also innovated on it and the character the way that TDKR or All-Star Superman did.

    I would definitely be the sort of person who would cite Kraven's Last Hunt as the best Spider-Man story, but I'm not entirely sure if I could cite it as the definitive Spider-Man story, partly considering how far off the trodden path it is tonally from most other Spider-Man materials before or after. There's always been a darker side to the Spidey mythos, but I think it's fair to say that KLH didn't wind up pulling a TDKR and lead a whole generation of Spider-Man comic writers and artists to try and directly emulate that for the next decade or two in the way that TDKR did for Batman. Not to mention how none of the usual big three Spider-Man rogues gallery villains are featured in KLH either. Again though, out of any Spidey story that I'm familiar with, KLH definitely comes the closest to the sort of highs that you see in TDKR or All-Star.

    Bizarrely, I feel like Hickman could potentially pull something like that off here with Ultimate Spider-Man. While I want this title to go on for quite some time and enjoy the same sort of long lasting impact on the franchise that the OG Ultimate had, I think it is fair to say that this title probably won't last anywhere near as long as Bendis' run did. But hey, if Hickman is able to churn out an All-Star Superman type defining classic here and the title "only" runs for two or three years total, I think that's fine too. Just so long as the collective whole ends up being strong material from start to finish.

  7. #862
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I'm just hoping this is less stiffer than some of Hickman's other recent work, but I don't get the sense he's trying to forcibly reinventing the wheel or get lost so much in the concepts instead of the character like he was for a lot of his X-Men (in my opinion).

    I'm not a big Hikcman fan but I want a solid Spidey book.

  8. #863
    Fantastic Member Hurricane Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm just hoping this is less stiffer than some of Hickman's other recent work, but I don't get the sense he's trying to forcibly reinventing the wheel or get lost so much in the concepts instead of the character like he was for a lot of his X-Men (in my opinion).

    I'm not a big Hikcman fan but I want a solid Spidey book.
    Yeah, the fact that Hickman is starting off his own personal "out of continuity Spider-Man playground" book with Green Goblin and Kingpin as his first two big name villains and Peter already working at the Daily Bugle even without moonlighting as a superhero definitely seems to imply that we won't have to worry too hard about USM veering drastically off course and that even if Hickman throws a number of curveballs into the mix, a lot of the general dressings and expectations of a Spider-Man story will likely still be in play here.

    I get the sense that while there will probably still be some drastic swings to come or ways in which USM will tie back into the broader Ultimate Universe narrative arc here, Hickman likely wants to explore the essence of Spider-Man as a character and story while inverting a number of standard tropes in the canon that we tend to take for granted as fans.

  9. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm just hoping this is less stiffer than some of Hickman's other recent work, but I don't get the sense he's trying to forcibly reinventing the wheel or get lost so much in the concepts instead of the character like he was for a lot of his X-Men (in my opinion).

    I'm not a big Hikcman fan but I want a solid Spidey book.
    TBF, the X-books, before Hickman's overhaul, were the most depressingly stale i had seen them in years. Still reeling from all the inhuman MCU synergy bullshit. So my point is i could see how one, especially one like Hickman, could feel more enthusiastic about rebuilding the whole mythos almost from the ground up and focusing a bit less on characters and more on concepts that would make the franchise as a whole interesting again, that's my take on it at least.

  10. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Billy View Post
    Yeah, the fact that Hickman is starting off his own personal "out of continuity Spider-Man playground" book with Green Goblin and Kingpin as his first two big name villains and Peter already working at the Daily Bugle even without moonlighting as a superhero definitely seems to imply that we won't have to worry too hard about USM veering drastically off course and that even if Hickman throws a number of curveballs into the mix, a lot of the general dressings and expectations of a Spider-Man story will likely still be in play here.

    I get the sense that while there will probably still be some drastic swings to come or ways in which USM will tie back into the broader Ultimate Universe narrative arc here, Hickman likely wants to explore the essence of Spider-Man as a character and story while inverting a number of standard tropes in the canon that we tend to take for granted as fans.
    If i were to bet, i'd say Hickman stays until he loses interest, i'm confident a Spidey book by him, even if it's an AU will not struggle to meet sales expectations and even exceed them. Hope he stays on board for more than just a couple of years.

    Who knows, maybe by virtue of being so good, we get concepts from this book that bleed into ASM and maybe bring new life into the main 616 continuity.

  11. #866
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapioca Blitzkrieg View Post
    If i were to bet, i'd say Hickman stays until he loses interest, i'm confident a Spidey book by him, even if it's an AU will not struggle to meet sales expectations and even exceed them. Hope he stays on board for more than just a couple of years.

    Who knows, maybe by virtue of being so good, we get concepts from this book that bleed into ASM and maybe bring new life into the main 616 continuity.
    Like the original Ultimate Universe did, though hopefully for the better this time around.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #867
    Fantastic Member Hurricane Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapioca Blitzkrieg View Post
    If i were to bet, i'd say Hickman stays until he loses interest, i'm confident a Spidey book by him, even if it's an AU will not struggle to meet sales expectations and even exceed them. Hope he stays on board for more than just a couple of years.

    Who knows, maybe by virtue of being so good, we get concepts from this book that bleed into ASM and maybe bring new life into the main 616 continuity.
    I really, really hope this ends up happening. Not just for ASM and mainline 616 comics, but for other broader media of Spider-Man in general.

  13. #868
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    It would be kind of funny if this and Spider-Verse have Mayday pull a reverse Jon Kent and get depicted more as a little girl .

  14. #869
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
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    USM #1 8-Bit variant by Matthew Waite:

    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  15. #870
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    USM #1 8-Bit variant by Matthew Waite:

    So either Harry Goblin is like a protagonist unto himself in this run, Peter's main rival, or something to that effect.

    It's weird Ultimate Cap is there when he hasn't even been freed from the ice yet. I'd have replaced him with Ultimate Black Panther but I guess they wanted an Avengers-y vibe (and Sif is there too).

    They'll never sell me on the beard.

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