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  1. #61
    Mighty Member norj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Some mad scientist apropriating some of his DNA doesn't make him a father.
    He never got the chance to raise them, but his recent series shows that Cap is a good father.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Some mad scientist apropriating some of his DNA doesn't make him a father.
    Well, he doesnt has to admit it if he doesnt want to, but is not like that you have to be the biological father in a traditional way to be considered their father; after all, Jean and Scott always have considered Rachel, Cable and X-man as their own kids.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Because until then the Cuckoos were Weapon IV, mutant-killing super-Sentinel, forced-evolved over hundreds of relative years inside The World. Now they're suddenly just clones.

    Why would I be even remotely interested in reading stories that exist to retcon stories I like?

    It's not one or other...they actually both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I knew he did Endsong, and I never even looked at the sequel to a story was never going to read the first part off.
    Warsong doesn't really have anything to do with Endsong beyond the Phoenix aspect...you don't have to read one to read the other...that said, I don't understand avoiding a good story simply because you don't like the artist...and I'd take Greg Land over Frank (Mr. Lumpy) Quitely from Morrison's run anyday.

    There are plenty of good stories with bad artists...and vice versa.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    Well, he doesnt has to admit it if he doesnt want to, but is not like that you have to be the biological father in a traditional way to be considered their father; after all, Jean and Scott always have considered Rachel, Cable and X-man as their own kids.
    Rachel & Cable, maybe (though it took quite a while for either of them to come around on Rachel)...I don't remember them accepting X-Man though...they barely even acknowledged his existence...but the difference there is that it was actually confirmed that they are Scott & Jean's kids (in a fashion)...there is absolutely no basis in story for Cap being the Cuckoos' father...it's all fanfic.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinningdemon View Post
    It's not one or other...they actually both.
    How? They seem mutually exclusive. How can they be both Emma's sort-of clones/daughters, and at the same time have been forced-evolved over hundreds of generations?

    Warsong doesn't really have anything to do with Endsong beyond the Phoenix aspect...
    That's on Marvel then for misrepresenting it. Same writer, almost the same name, advertised as the sequel...

    ...I don't understand avoiding a good story simply because you don't like the artist...and I'd take Greg Land over Frank (Mr. Lumpy) Quitely from Morrison's run anyday.
    I don't mind a mediocre artist, I do mind an artist that is that bad he becomes toxic, makes it hurt to even look at the page. And messes up the story because he can't draw facial expressions, poses, or even the same hairstyle twice for the same character in one page.

    Plus I wasn't in the slightest interested in the Endsong story anyway. Subject matter didn't appeal to me.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    How? They seem mutually exclusive. How can they be both Emma's sort-of clones/daughters, and at the same time have been forced-evolved over hundreds of generations?
    Because that all still happened...it just started from Emma's stolen ova.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    That's on Marvel then for misrepresenting it. Same writer, almost the same name, advertised as the sequel...
    It's KIND OF a sequel but nothing about it requires you to have read Endsong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I don't mind a mediocre artist, I do mind an artist that is that bad he becomes toxic, makes it hurt to even look at the page. And messes up the story because he can't draw facial expressions, poses, or even the same hairstyle twice for the same character in one page.
    There are plenty of POPULAR artists way worse than Greg Land...and and I actually liked his early stuff at DC...his style was quite a bit different then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Plus I wasn't in the slightest interested in the Endsong story anyway. Subject matter didn't appeal to me.
    Not a fan of Jean Grey, I take it? Because Pak understood the character a hell of a lot better than Morrison ever did and it was a great epilogue for her.

  7. #67
    bye thx fish yet another's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinningdemon View Post
    Not a fan of Jean Grey, I take it? Because Pak understood the character a hell of a lot better than Morrison ever did and it was a great epilogue for her.
    It was not really about the actual Jean Grey though, just her corpse that got re-animated by the splintered and confused Phoenix Force.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by yet another View Post
    It was not really about the actual Jean Grey though, just her corpse that got re-animated by the splintered and confused Phoenix Force.
    That's how it started but not how it ended.

  9. #69
    Spectacular Member CyclopsWasRight's Avatar
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    I can't believe I'm saying this...but suddenly the idea of Frost and the Sister interacting with Captain America sound marvelous.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyclopsWasRight View Post
    I can't believe I'm saying this...but suddenly the idea of Frost and the Sister interacting with Captain America sound marvelous.
    Interacting is one thing... Retroactively (Fan-Fic notwithstanding) getting me to believe Roger's is the genetic father is quite another... Bad enough that there were several pages of posts pre-CBR reboot, claiming (as well as accepting scientifically) that Emma's stolen egg cells were fertilized with her own DNA (XX chromosome). The suggestion that Roger's DNA is the XY component involved in the Cuckoo's conception is hyper-exaggerated Fan-Wank. I'm just saying...
    Last edited by ZNOP; 09-09-2014 at 02:00 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinningdemon View Post
    Because that all still happened...it just started from Emma's stolen ova.
    The story I'm hearing here is that the Cuckoos are the first generation result of combining Emma Frost's and possibly Steve Roger's DNA.

    It's KIND OF a sequel but nothing about it requires you to have read Endsong.
    It's what I call a patch story. It exists to 'fix' something so it's more in line with past continuity. It's purpose is not to tell a story but to manage canon.

    There are plenty of POPULAR artists way worse than Greg Land...and and I actually liked his early stuff at DC...his style was quite a bit different then.
    I feel confident in saying that Greg Land is one of the worst artists working in comics ever, at least as bad as Rob Liefeld.

    http://jimsmashextended.blogspot.be/...recycling.html

    Not a fan of Jean Grey, I take it?
    Big fan, just not a fan of this type of fanservice.

    Because Pak understood the character a hell of a lot better than Morrison ever did and it was a great epilogue for her.
    She didn't need one. All of New X-Men was a perfect epilogue for her.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by yet another View Post
    It was not really about the actual Jean Grey though, just her corpse that got re-animated by the splintered and confused Phoenix Force.
    Sounds like a great epilogue indeed.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    The story I'm hearing here is that the Cuckoos are the first generation result of combining Emma Frost's and possibly Steve Roger's DNA.
    It's been a while since I read it but, to my knowledge, nothing in Warsong precluded anything previously established and I don't recall it ever specifically saying what generation the Cuckoos were. It certainly didn't establish anything about the father (this whole Cap thing is all fanfic).

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It's what I call a patch story. It exists to 'fix' something so it's more in line with past continuity. It's purpose is not to tell a story but to manage canon.
    That's not it at all...and I really don't see how you can call it that without reading it...it doesn't "fix" anything or bring anything in line with past continuity...the Cuckoos were still pretty new at the time so there wasn't a lot of past continuity to go off of anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I feel confident in saying that Greg Land is one of the worst artists working in comics ever, at least as bad as Rob Liefeld.

    http://jimsmashextended.blogspot.be/...recycling.html
    Not even close to as bad as Liefeld.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Big fan, just not a fan of this type of fanservice.
    Again, if you haven't read it, I don't see how you can call it that...it's just a better ending for the character, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    She didn't need one. All of New X-Men was a perfect epilogue for her.
    To each his own...I think all of New X-Men was crap and Morrison didn't understand any of the characters at all...and don't get me started of the HORRIBLE character designs from that run...even the better artists that followed Mr. Lumpy couldn't make those look good.

    Pak got it right because Endsong almost felt like a bookend to the Phoenix Saga.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Sounds like a great epilogue indeed.
    Again, that's what kicks it off but not how the story ends...Jean regains control through the course of the story and ends with her heading off into the White Room...essentially choosing to leave this plane of existence...much better than seeing her get killed by a drug addicted Magneto that shouldn't have even been able to kill her at all at that point (especially given that she'd just survived a trip into the sun).

  15. #75
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
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    It would be awkward for Cap to visit the NXS and ask Emma if he can spend time with his daughters for the day.

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