How do you prefer your Cyborg?

[Riv86672]

An argument could be made for Moon Girl. Technically she's a legacy/reinvention of Moon Boy, but Moon Boy is such a minor, unknown character, Lunella might as well be the only Moon person ever.

^^^Hey now.
Everybody loves Moon Boy!

[Sutekh]

Agreed, I like a sidekick who isn't just a carbon copy.

Maybe a young soldier who was hurt overseas?

The Fourth World offers some interesting options, and I wouldn't argue at firmer connections being built there at all, that's something I really want to see. But given how poorly DC has handled the New Gods tech with Vic, I dunno if I'd want to tie a sidekick into it. Could be great and exactly what Vic needs, but I worry the sidekick would just get held down because DC fears a man with a Mother Box for a heart actually living up to what that means.

I'm on the fence about whether or not I'd want Victor to keep the Mother Box. On the one hand, I like that he's got such major tech tied to a major (if rarely used, outside of Darkseid) side-property of the DCU. OTOH, I also am not sure I want him tied to a non-Titans origin or side-franchise, for when DC decides to do something major involving it (like destroy it all, in one of their universe shattering events, scheduled about every six months to wipe out *someone* like the Green Lanterns, Legion, JSA, random hero's home planet like Rann, Thanagar, Tamaran, etc.).

I guess I lean towards 'keep it' because bad writers and bad events are gonna happen anyway, no reason to not hope for the best.

An argument could be made for Moon Girl. Technically she's a legacy/reinvention of Moon Boy, but Moon Boy is such a minor, unknown character, Lunella might as well be the only Moon person ever. Same with Mr. Terrific; Holt's not the first to use that name but people barely remember the original guy and care even less.

Yeah, the new Mr. Terrific is so different than the original, with the super-tech / genius angle, but there are lots of legacies who are quite different than their inspiration. Jaime Reyes to Ted Kord or Dan Garett. John Henry Irons to Kal-El. Maxine Hunkle to 'Ma' Hunkle. And hey, Maxine is one of those rare examples of a legacy of a female character, even if, as is often the case, the female character had to give birth to 'inspire a legacy.' Bet your bippy Batman would have less legacies in his Batfamily if he had to squeeze them all out of his pelvic girdle.

[marhawkman]

I'm on the fence about whether or not I'd want Victor to keep the Mother Box. On the one hand, I like that he's got such major tech tied to a major (if rarely used, outside of Darkseid) side-property of the DCU. OTOH, I also am not sure I want him tied to a non-Titans origin or side-franchise, for when DC decides to do something major involving it (like destroy it all, in one of their universe shattering events, scheduled about every six months to wipe out *someone* like the Green Lanterns, Legion, JSA, random hero's home planet like Rann, Thanagar, Tamaran, etc.).

I guess I lean towards 'keep it' because bad writers and bad events are gonna happen anyway, no reason to not hope for the best.

I lean towards "ditch it" because making Cyborg a creation of Fourth world tech dilutes the Fourth World mythos, and erases something that was an interesting and unique part of the setting.

[Ascended]

I'm on the fence about whether or not I'd want Victor to keep the Mother Box.

I guess I lean towards 'keep it' because bad writers and bad events are gonna happen anyway, no reason to not hope for the best.

Once again, I feel the same way. There's potential drawbacks to the Fourth World stuff, but I think the potential benefits outweigh them, end of the day. Both pro's and con's seem mostly pointless too, since DC mostly just settles in the bland, uninspired mid-point of "he has Boom Tubes now."

By rights, that Mother Box should make Vic a world breaker and I think you could do some cosmically awesome stuff with it, and the possibility of getting that is worth the risk of DC screwing it up. After all, they'll ignore and/or screw up Vic whether he's tied to the New Gods or not.

@ Marhawkman, why do you think Vic erases something unique about the setting?

[marhawkman]

@ Marhawkman, why do you think Vic erases something unique about the setting?

I was talking about the backstory of how Vic's cybernetics were created. It's a unique form of tech not found elsewhere in DC. Deleting that and replacing it with Fourth World leftovers is... thoroughly meh.

[superduperman]

I'm probably the only person in the world who likes this version but I liked the Smallville show version. No one could tell from the outside that he had robotic parts. Its was very Six Million Dollar Man.

[Tzigone]

I was talking about the backstory of how Vic's cybernetics were created. It's a unique form of tech not found elsewhere in DC. Deleting that and replacing it with Fourth World leftovers is... thoroughly meh.

I pretty much agree. I'm much more okay with the idea of original origin and then some nano-esque tech later (allowing him to change forms and look normal if he desires, since I know that's very desirable to some people). Now, I'm on-record as preferring less god-tier heroes - a Superman that moves mountains, not planets, a WW vulnerable bullets, no speed-thief-scouts-electrokinesis for Flashes, I like a vulnerability to yellow for GLs, Bats that are actually limited to human abilities, etc. But even if Vic does get those sorts of powers later, I really value his origin and the stories around it (including the actions of his dying father). I always liked the idea of Vuc trying to develop more prosaic (and much cheaper) versions of his prosthetics so people like the kids Sarah Simms taught could have better prosthetics.

I don't object to a sidekick, but don't think he needs one, either. I'm also on-record as generally against legacies. I think they pit fanbases against each other, each trying to say their own favorite is the "best version of" and deserves the comics titled such and most attention in other media and so forth and I don't like two heroes operating with the same name at the same time (though we have plenty) and he's way too young to retire and alternate-future-characters don't hold any weight to me. I also think it entirely depressing in regards to young heroes that the highest honor they can ever hope to achieve (both in-universe and out) is to inherit someone else's title and not to make their own just as great and worthy of respect - the fact that I like several of the younger gen characters more than the older ones make this even more the case (like Impulse doesn't need to be Flash - he can, in-universe, make the name Impulse just as highly regarded and IRL it just leads to fan in-fighting and sometimes even writers undermining the others with the title to make theirs the most superior and so forth).

[Ascended]

I was talking about the backstory of how Vic's cybernetics were created. It's a unique form of tech not found elsewhere in DC. Deleting that and replacing it with Fourth World leftovers is... thoroughly meh.

Ah, I can see that. But Vic lost that stuff ages ago didn't he? First with the Technis, then that gold liquid nanite stuff. Pretty sure none of Vic's original hardware was around by the reboot, so the Mother Box was just more of the same in my mind.

[Customizer]

Ah, I can see that. But Vic lost that stuff ages ago didn't he? First with the Technis, then that gold liquid nanite stuff. Pretty sure none of Vic's original hardware was around by the reboot, so the Mother Box was just more of the same in my mind.

Which brings to mind the question (again):

What is his power set based upon i.e. mechanical design or advanced alien tech (or..)?

Having a clear , canon based and irrefutable answer to that question eliminates a lot of opinion about what he can do vs what people insist that he shouldn't be able to do (which is based in preference). Are the Cyborg written works prior to this current run still in the same DC universe ( i don't follow DC closely so i'm not sure)? Is his origin the same?

Whether Cyborgs tech is more subdued i.e. his Smallville and/or George Perez era representation *or* it's advanced i.e. his comic book and animation representation i think fans who care about such things (which may not be many admittedly lol) need clarity.

Is it too much to say ... this character needs "fleshing out" ?

*I'll see myself out.

[Factor]

The best we've probably had in comics is the DCYou design by Reis, and I think the Flashpoint costume was quite good as well. And I like the current look, especially when he's wearing athletic wear over it. In larger media, the Doom Patrol look is good, but I find most adaptations have a few bits that I like and a lot that I don't.

Don't think we've ever hit the 'perfect, timeless' design, and I'm not sure we ever can, since technology keeps changing so Vic has to too.

But my general rules for what a good Cyborg design needs is...

Vic needs to look like a cyborg. Not a dude in power armor, not a robot. He's a fusion; man and machine, so I want roughly 50% organic, 50% cybernetic. And I prefer it asymmetrical, so he's not missing the same pieces on both sides (which is weird). Vic doesn't need to be showing skin the way the 80's version did, I'm fine when the skin is covered by the black spandex or whatever, but the flesh needs to be there and in equal amount to the cybernetics. And yes, his, um, 'gear shift' is all original and in perfect working order. And some of the bionic parts (hand, knee, whatever) need to be obviously robotic, and not just an armor covering.

The cybernetics need to reflect the highest, most cutting edge stuff in the public consciousness. Whatever that is, at a given moment in time. Right now it looks sleek and supple, and almost like real flesh except for color/texture and a few obvious joints, screws, and seams. Right now, Vic should look like he was designed by Apple and whoever makes those really sleek military drones.

Emblem. He needs one, and DC needs to stick with it. Vic needs something you can slap on a t-shirt or lunchbox that people will recognize. His face is his most iconic and marketable asset, but a face, any face, is a poor substitute for a 'S' shield or lightning bolt. And some folks (understandably) take issue with the face-plate. DC's given him some, changed them, taken them away...they need to settle on one and use it across the board on everything, just as Clark always has his shield. I prefer the emblem to be over his heart rather than centered on his chest. That keeps the asymmetrical element and also speaks to the themes of the character.

I prefer when Vic wears clothes. He's basically running around naked otherwise. I'm ashamed to say I never really considered that before someone (the new writer?) pointed it out recently.

Not precisely part of the 'costume' conversation, but tangentially related. Vic should have the ability to change what he looks like. We're at the point where holograms are real so I don't even want Vic using that to disguise himself, I want his tech to literally rearrange itself so he can appear as whatever he wants (within reason). But while I'm fine with Vic going 'normal' when he wants to be incognito, I want him to spend most of his time in his 'default' cyborg appearance, and I want it to be because Vic has made peace with what and who he is. He wants to be seen for that, and not have to hide behind a 'normie' disguise so other people can feel comfortable.

I agree with pretty much all of this. It would be the ideal solution for me.

[wonder39]

I lean towards "ditch it" because making Cyborg a creation of Fourth world tech dilutes the Fourth World mythos, and erases something that was an interesting and unique part of the setting.

Agree about ditching motherbox stuff for Vic. Not every part of the DC zu has to be interconnected. Plus it takes away Silas' importance in Victor's becoming Cyborg.

Also ditch the JL stuff altogether for him

[Zero Hunter]

That and Forth World tech is basically magic. It does what the story requires of it with no rhyme or reason.

[dkrook]

I'm probably the only person in the world who likes this version but I liked the Smallville show version. No one could tell from the outside that he had robotic parts. Its was very Six Million Dollar Man.

Naw friend, there are many that want to see an advanced concept like the Smallville version where he can look like a whole man. There's no real reason to keep his aesthetic as a patchwork metal Frankenstein. With the technology Vic now has incorporated into him there's no way he can't be a top tier hero in DC and fight most of the more powerful villains.

[Riv86672]

^^^One has nothing to do w. the other.

[Iconic]

Naw friend, there are many that want to see an advanced concept like the Smallville version where he can look like a whole man. There's no real reason to keep his aesthetic as a patchwork metal Frankenstein. With the technology Vic now has incorporated into him there's no way he can't be a top tier hero in DC and fight most of the more powerful villains.

No, no, no. He has to be trapped in his low-tech body that was written according to what was presumed advanced in the 80’s. He needs to continue to be the outcast, Frankenstein’s monster that is somehow (according to some posters here) a role model for the disabled audience.

Every major DC character can be upgraded in line with what their abilities are able to do, but a character based on the ever-evolving and advancing technology of DC must stay the same.

Vic must be reset to his original appearance and powerset. If he’s not disfigured, questioning his humanity and struggling with daddy issues, how will the “fans” know who he is?!?!? Got to keep them comfortable.

……