How do you prefer your Cyborg?

[dswynne]

What he need is a major story where he's the main hero. I would make Dr. Cyber his main antagonist (since the Wonder Woman writers don't want to use her) and beef up her powerset. Make her a Dr. Doom level treat while making her a ghost inside the machine (net). She would have a real body, but it is always hidden. Her consciousness would migrate from android to android. If she was at a treat level just under say Brainiac, she could be the perfect foe for him.
Maybe an Fourth World villain (not Darkseid but a new creation who's nearly as powerful) could confront him over the Motherbox.

Or maybe a villain like Marvel's Lionel Jeffries (Omega). A mad scientist who can manipulate flesh, bone, and organic matter. Someone totally scary, powerful and dangerous. He could create minions (or infect humans) that could manipulate their bodies like the amine Parasyte. And only Victor's tech could detect them.

Dr. Cyber would represent the idea of "evolution through the merging of man and machine", which is a core concept of "transhumanism". In fact, there are three aspects of transhumanism, which machine intelligence integration being one of them (the other is medicinal while the other is genetic engineering). She wouldn't be a mustache-twirling villain, but a person who actually believe that human beings should "evolve" forcibly, in order to bring about universal harmony and perfection. Vic would be the complete anthesis to this idea, believing that man should be the driver of who he or she can be, using cybernetics and bionics as a tool, rather than as a goal.

[Ascended]

I'd be down with Doc Cyber as a Cyborg villain I suppose, though I'd much, much rather Wonder Woman make use of her own rogues. Or am I thinking of the wrong Dr. Cyber?

Part of me wants to see Gizmo built up and elevated towards the role of archnemesis. I'd actually like Vic to take the entire Fearsome Five as part of his solo rogues gallery, with Jinx retaining the role of femme fatale/quasi-love interest. But part of me thinks DC would never manage to express the growth and development Gizmo would need for the role, and that would make Vic would look like he hasn't grown either.

My only real thing is that I want a *varied* rogues gallery. The last two series pretty much just stuck to tech-based villains, and while I'm fine with that being Vic's primary kind of foe, I want more than just that. Batman doesn't 'only' fight mobsters and lunatics, Wonder Woman doesn't 'only' fight gods and monsters from myth. Cyborg shouldn't 'only' fight technology villains. There should be some wizards, some time travel/other dimensional guys, monsters, mobsters, etc.

At least we've had a fairly decent spread of tech villains. Alien cyborgs, incorporeal AI, robot armies....at least it isn't just one thing. And they could always bring back the Technis and Grid to help round out this side of the rogues gallery too.

I'd also like to see Simyan and Mokkari folded into Vic's rogues gallery. A couple twisted, monster-making New Gods from Apokolips? Hell yeah, they'd make fantastic villains for Vic.

[Sutekh]

Part of me wants to see Gizmo built up and elevated towards the role of archnemesis. I'd actually like Vic to take the entire Fearsome Five as part of his solo rogues gallery, with Jinx retaining the role of femme fatale/quasi-love interest. But part of me thinks DC would never manage to express the growth and development Gizmo would need for the role, and that would make Vic would look like he hasn't grown either.

I like the notion that Gizmo has worked with Intergang in the past (or perhaps just stolen from them...), and LURVES him some sweet alien super-tech, and wants to crack Victor open like a lobster and get his grubby little mitts on all that juicy tech...

Plus Intergang themselves could get involved. Make it a threeway, they want Gizmo dead (for stealing from / betraying them), but they *also* want Victor's tech for their collection!

My only real thing is that I want a *varied* rogues gallery. The last two series pretty much just stuck to tech-based villains, and while I'm fine with that being Vic's primary kind of foe, I want more than just that. Batman doesn't 'only' fight mobsters and lunatics, Wonder Woman doesn't 'only' fight gods and monsters from myth. Cyborg shouldn't 'only' fight technology villains. There should be some wizards, some time travel/other dimensional guys, monsters, mobsters, etc.

Good point. Having someone like Jinx, all about using the unique metals in his construction to fuel spells she can't cast without exotic materials only someone like Victor can provide, or Plasmus (secretly the blob that ate his mom), back to finish the meal he started with Victor's lower limbs. ("Give the guy a foot, and he'll take... all the rest!")

I'd also like to see Simyan and Mokkari folded into Vic's rogues gallery. A couple twisted, monster-making New Gods from Apokolips? Hell yeah, they'd make fantastic villains for Vic.

Ooh, I've never even heard of these two, but they sound fun! And the monster-making thing sounds like someone thematically ideal to be a Beast Boy (or Vixen, or Catman) foe, perhaps using / twisting animals into horrible monsters for their bio-weapons research / sick amusement, which makes him even more fun as a foe for an unexpected enemy like Victor!

[Customizer]

There's plenty of toys that don't look like the character's design in the comic and cartoons. Plus it seems like you all haven't figured out if it's a bootleg or not.

This.

And it's definitely not a bootleg.

It's an official product design approved by DC/WB that can be found on multiple retailer platforms , in Mattel stores and brick and mortar locations.

Oh, and the first three images Customizer linked (post 246) wouldn't load for me, so I'm just looking at the other ones.

Fixed Thank you for the heads up.

3 completely different 12'' Cyborg figures are shown now (also shown below if people don't want to go back a page).

s-l1600.jpg

71Y7DpfCrhL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

71s1nsNSCuL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Why those images matter (along with JL Battle Armor Cyborg posted previously):

3 different physical designs with 3 consistent features (silver armor, colorful chest emblem and the face plate). Modifying one feature isn't going to make a Cyborg fan become unable to recognize the character. It's Cyborg. It's always Cyborg lol.

[Customizer]

Mods: Please remove (dbl post)

[skyvolt2000]

https://youtu.be/cGUmsqnEdPk?si=SMWd80FjnvpJDRbK

Part of the gaff I at least hear here...

Let Cyborg represent the disable community and stay the way he is. Last time I checked wasn't Babs Gordon disabled for a long time? As was Professor Xavier? We have tons of characters with disabilities. Many who have evolved. Yet Cyborg at least in comics is in a battle of staying the same.

Along with their accusing fans of not accepting new black (while black is not mentioned) characters.

And to be honest I sense some shots at certain Green Lantern writers (although Green Lantern was NOT mentioned until later when a GL rant about a GL for almost every race).

Go find a new character or create new ones to like was said a LOT.

And while the woman is saying this but her point REALLY applies to those who buy badly done books and keep coming back.



I guess those two ignore Victor Stone from Earth 1. All his metal parts aside from his eye are liquid like metal.

[Customizer]

https://youtu.be/cGUmsqnEdPk?si=SMWd80FjnvpJDRbK

Part of the gaff I at least hear here...

Let Cyborg represent the disable community and stay the way he is. Last time I checked wasn't Babs Gordon disabled for a long time? As was Professor Xavier? We have tons of characters with disabilities. Many who have evolved. Yet Cyborg at least in comics is in a battle of staying the same.

Along with their accusing fans of not accepting new black (while black is not mentioned) characters.

And to be honest I sense some shots at certain Green Lantern writers (although Green Lantern was NOT mentioned until later when a GL rant about a GL for almost every race).

Go find a new character or create new ones to like was said a LOT.

And while the woman is saying this but her point REALLY applies to those who buy badly done books and keep coming back.



I guess those two ignore Victor Stone from Earth 1. All his metal parts aside from his eye are liquid like metal.

I recall that creator used to post on this forum in years past.

...... yeah.


Anyway..... i haven't watched that but ...is the point that "disabled" is synonymous with visible prosthetics only or do Smallville Cyborg subdermal non organic parts count (and why one over the other)? Are the prosthetics that he might use restricted to 20th century tech? If so ...how and why is Cyborg "highly advanced"? And "stay as he is"....which version? Is a high tech red bionic eye acceptable inside of the skull or only outside of the skull? Does this current version written by Hampton count as "leaving Cyborg as he is" because , well, this Cyborg wears a track suit and in canon Cyborg can change most of his body at will (recently written and confirmed again by Morgan Hampton. THANK YOU SIR!) . What does disabled really mean when one has the power to change virtually any part of their body?

What about his teeth? Can his teeth change or is that unacceptable lol? Peritonitis is serious. Where's the line? Is the line a preference? Did preference trump canon recently?

I have so many questions lol

[Ascended]

I like the notion that Gizmo has worked with Intergang in the past (or perhaps just stolen from them...), and LURVES him some sweet alien super-tech, and wants to crack Victor open like a lobster and get his grubby little mitts on all that juicy tech...

I have thoughts on how I'd want to tackle Gizmo, if he were to be elevated towards the role of archnemesis (I say elevated 'towards' it because it's not DC that decides who the archnemesis is, that happens organically over time).

But I suspect from the what you wrote here that, at least generally speaking, we'd probably go in similar directions with him.

Plus Intergang themselves could get involved. Make it a threeway, they want Gizmo dead (for stealing from / betraying them), but they *also* want Victor's tech for their collection!

Of course. The gun runners who specialize in selling Fourth World tech would absolutely want to get their hands on Vic. Again, I have ideas. However! While I totally support Vic using established villains from other rogues galleries, that's a line you gotta walk carefully. Nothing wrong with borrowing Intergang or Doc Cyber or Hank Henshaw for an arc. But the emphasis truly does need to be on building Vic's solo mythos and rogues. That has to come before anything else. As long as creators keep that in mind tho, I totally welcome them using groups like Intergang or dudes like T.O. Morrow.

Good point. Having someone like Jinx, all about using the unique metals in his construction to fuel spells she can't cast without exotic materials only someone like Victor can provide, or Plasmus (secretly the blob that ate his mom), back to finish the meal he started with Victor's lower limbs. ("Give the guy a foot, and he'll take... all the rest!")

Love your idea for Plasmus, btw. DC needs to make that canon asap.

Ooh, I've never even heard of these two, but they sound fun! And the monster-making thing sounds like someone thematically ideal to be a Beast Boy (or Vixen, or Catman) foe

You might find them worth a Google, if you haven't already. They're low ranking New Gods from Apokolips. If I remember correctly, they were the first New Gods to debut in Jimmy Olsen, where they had taken over Cadmus Labs and, among other things, created a giant Hulk-like clone of Jimmy. I believe they created the parademons too? And Morrison had them among the first New Gods to arrive on earth during Final Crisis, following Darkseid's fall. Pretty sure they created the new Female Furies in that story, which involved a lot of mutating and breaking female heroes like Wonder Woman and Batwoman.

I always got the feeling they were like an advanced guard; sent to a world to create monsters and soften the place up for invasion. They don't have a ton of appearances, but that just makes them work better as Cyborg villains. Vic can basically lay claim to them entirely and nobody will miss them.

Plus, Simyan is a monkey, and every good A-lister needs a monkey villain!

Fixed Thank you for the heads up.

Thanks for fixing it!

One of those figures looks like it's from the Justice League Action show, one's from the JL movie. Other seems to be just a 'generic' toy?

Modifying one feature isn't going to make a Cyborg fan become unable to recognize the character. It's Cyborg. It's always Cyborg lol.

As long as the main visual elements are in place, yeah you can experiment and change things up. No different from any other costume tweak. But it's keeping those key visuals (in some fashion) that proves the difference between "Cyborg has a new look" and "who's this guy supposed to be?" But I agree; the images you posted here, nobody is gonna confuse that guy for anybody else. The faceless ones from a few posts above? Might be a different story, as it would be with other major changes, like making the armor I dunno, orange instead.

is the point that "disabled" is synonymous with visible prosthetics only or do Smallville Cyborg subdermal non organic parts count (and why one over the other)?

I think in Vic's case, yes it needs to be visible. The crux of the character is him trying to find/maintain a balance between the 'man' and the 'machine' and comics, being the visual medium they are, tend to do well when those internal factors are externalized somehow. Vic's man *and* machine, it's a big part of who he is, so he looks like both.

What does disabled really mean when one has the power to change virtually any part of their body?

And that's one of the questions that Vic should be asking himself. Same applies to Daredevil I think; what does it mean to be blind when you can 'see' everything around you better than people with normal eyes? Vic being able to turn his prosthetics and bionics into whatever is needful....that's a fantastic power and tool, but how that sets with his own self-image and disability? That's the kind of internal tension where great characters are found.

Gene Yang once said that the 'true' character of Superman is found in the tension between "Clark" and "Superman" and I think it holds true for Vic too; who he is, man or machine? He's both, and his visual keys into that.

Did preference trump canon recently?

DC jumped that shark themselves quite a while ago.

[Sutekh]

Of course. The gun runners who specialize in selling Fourth World tech would absolutely want to get their hands on Vic. Again, I have ideas. However! While I totally support Vic using established villains from other rogues galleries, that's a line you gotta walk carefully. Nothing wrong with borrowing Intergang or Doc Cyber or Hank Henshaw for an arc. But the emphasis truly does need to be on building Vic's solo mythos and rogues. That has to come before anything else. As long as creators keep that in mind tho, I totally welcome them using groups like Intergang or dudes like T.O. Morrow.

Yeah, gotta agree with that, which is at least part of the reason I like using figures like Gizmo, Jinx and Plasmus, or organizations like HIVE, perhaps, who were at least introduced in the classic Wolfman/Perez run that first introduced Cyborg himself, and are arguably already kinda/sorta 'his' villains, being Titans villains.

But definitely a few unique faces. One of the strong points, IMO, of Batman, Flash or even Firestorm, was that they had some great unique creative villains. Just, as you say, don't tie them all to his tech, or make them all tech villains. Tap that well, sure, but don't limit him to it!

And maybe don't just coast on the notion of disability representation, but go all the way, like with Iron Man 3, and have a storyline touch on it. Have someone running a foundation working on affordable prosthetic technology approach Victor about being a sponsor, and then accidentally uncover a bad element in their R&D (that the boss is totally unaware of!) seeking to piggy-back off their research to enhance enforcers or assassins with concealable tech implants (using a charitable foundation to empower the disabled to try and design tech allowing perfectly able-bodied folk to be better spies and killers!).

[Iconic]

Vic shouldn’t be questioning anything anymore. Man? Machine? No. It’s been answered by John Semper already. He’s the Singularity. The perfect blend of man & technology. That’s it.

He’s not disabled. He’s beyond able! He was in a catastrophic accident and was granted powers beyond imagination by an advanced alien technology.

Why there are those who want to saddle him with being the poster child for the disabled everywhere, I don’t know. Disabled people tend to choose prosthetics that tend to match their skin tone don’t they?

It makes no sense that a guy who can change his appearance at will chooses to look like that. Smallville Cyborg had no issue. When we leave our homes, we usually want to look our best. We wear clothes. Why is this the character who has to wear the baggage of his amazing abilities. Why is flash not a burn victim? Why doesn’t he run around in bandages after being struck by lightning? Answer: Who’d want to read about that??

[krazijoe]

https://youtu.be/cGUmsqnEdPk?si=SMWd80FjnvpJDRbK

Part of the gaff I at least hear here...

Let Cyborg represent the disable community and stay the way he is. Last time I checked wasn't Babs Gordon disabled for a long time? As was Professor Xavier? We have tons of characters with disabilities. Many who have evolved. Yet Cyborg at least in comics is in a battle of staying the same.

Along with their accusing fans of not accepting new black (while black is not mentioned) characters.

And to be honest I sense some shots at certain Green Lantern writers (although Green Lantern was NOT mentioned until later when a GL rant about a GL for almost every race).

Go find a new character or create new ones to like was said a LOT.

And while the woman is saying this but her point REALLY applies to those who buy badly done books and keep coming back.



I guess those two ignore Victor Stone from Earth 1. All his metal parts aside from his eye are liquid like metal.

I guess I don't understand the reasoning that Cyborg is disabled...For all intents and purposes, he is dead without his cybernetics. Or am I mistaken?

[Ascended]

-- the reason I like using figures like Gizmo, Jinx and Plasmus, or organizations like HIVE, perhaps, who were at least introduced in the classic Wolfman/Perez run that first introduced Cyborg himself, and are arguably already kinda/sorta 'his' villains, being Titans villains.

Exactly. Vic absolutely has a claim to these guys, and should take his share. Raven can have Blood and Trigon, Kori can keep Blackfire and the Gordanians, and I think Nightwing should get the HIVE. Vic should get the Five.

I figure if you take the Five, Grid, the Technis, Mokarri/Simyan, maybe adapt a version of Evil Dragon, you'd have a decent start for a rogues gallery. And that's not counting anyone you borrow for an arc or two, like Amazo or Metallo.

And maybe don't just coast on the notion of disability representation, but go all the way, like with Iron Man 3, and have a storyline touch on it

I like your idea of the foundation. I've long thought Vic should do more with the disabled community. Occasionally DC has touched on the topic and it's usually made for interesting stuff. I'd like to see Vic volunteer some, or advocate for wider access to medical technology for the disabled or something. I don't want to see Vic be a mouthpiece or start preaching all the time or anything, but this has been a factor in his character and mythos since day one and I feel like more should be done with it.

I guess I don't understand the reasoning that Cyborg is disabled...For all intents and purposes, he is dead without his cybernetics. Or am I mistaken?

Well, different eras and versions go to different extremes with it, but yeah generally speaking without the bionics Vic would die. Maybe instantly, maybe over the course of hours or days.

He's 'disabled' the same way Daredevil is, which is to say that by losing a little, he gained a whole lot. Vic lost limbs, organs, etc., and had to replace them. Pretty sure that's the exact definition of disabled. Of course, Vic's cybernetics make him a superhuman, so just like Murdock, it's far from a one-sided tradeoff. Comics!

[Customizer]

Not a toy guy, so I can't really speak to the in's and out's of that industry. What little I do hear makes it sound like a circus, but the bad stories always spread farther than the good ones.

With regard to toy manufacturing these things come to mind immediately: cliquish, cut throat , espionage, scams, litigation, I.P. law and sting operations lol.

I dabbled. It's still worth the effort. Seeing your concept become a product is cool to say the least.

Also watch Power of Grayskull: The Definitive History of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. It's worth your time.

Maybe WB was trying to see how marketable Vic really is without the plate. In which case, cool, it's good to know what your options are and what you can sell. If so, we'd want to be comparing sales of the plateless version to sales of a similar one with the plate. Was there something of similar size, price, and quality with the normal plate released around the same time? Are these numbers released to the public and if so, how do they compare (taking external factors into account like if either were part of a larger initiative like a movie)?

All of this may be true. I'll also (unfortunately) add that a full battle mask can off set some consumer hesitation rooted in cultural bias (see: Finn from Star Wars and Black Panther). On the bright side seeing so many toy variants of the Cyborg character kind of shows what many already know here: how inherently marketable Cyborg is due to being able to change weaponry and appearance. Cyborg variants are a bit more organic than "Amazon Warrior Batman" or " Arctic Freeze Aquaman" action figures (we all saw a million wild Batman figures as kids).

One of those figures looks like it's from the Justice League Action show, one's from the JL movie. Other seems to be just a 'generic' toy?

Yes. It's interesting that you described the last version as a "generic toy" because i think that version of Cyborg seems to be the default marketing version of the character when it comes to toys and non comic merchandise ( i see this version connected to candy sales for example). It also happens to be based upon the Rebirth version of Cyborg which i love

Is that (a full face covering battle mask) preferable to the 'no face plate' crowd btw?

Speaking for myself - No. I didn't hate the Cyborg full battle mask design and have actually promoted something like it in private conversations (on this site no less). However a full battle mask, while 100% practical and logical, makes me think of Iron Man. That may not be fair but it's what comes to mind. With that being said Cyborg creates helmets when needed already ( Ex. as recently as the 2023 Titans series issue #1 shown below) and i'm cool with that. As long as it isn't all of the time. I'd take a battle mask over the current partial face plate though.

creates helmet.jpg

If a casual, passingly aware of Cyborg and his various appearances (maybe he watches GO! with his kids, and saw JL), saw one of those toys out of the package, would he know who it is?

No and they shouldn't. Which supports the idea that DC should be making sure the "C" cyborg emblem gets consistent use on it's evergreen product aka "generic Cyborg". But we should also get tweaks and variants if for no other reason than marketing opportunities. If a Cyborg variant increases your sales by 15% you make it.

He's 'disabled' the same way Daredevil is, which is to say that by losing a little, he gained a whole lot. Vic lost limbs, organs, etc., and had to replace them. Pretty sure that's the exact definition of disabled. Of course, Vic's cybernetics make him a superhuman, so just like Murdock, it's far from a one-sided tradeoff. Comics!

And this is why pages back i said it seems that the argument from some folks seems to boil down to " I just need to see Cyborg effed up." lol. Cyborg never *stopped* being disabled (and i'm not equating the colloquialism "effed up" with disabled) . He will always be "disabled" in the strictest sense. But some people need to *see him* physically disabled instead of just accepting that he is and accepting that he can change appearances / weaponry. That's wild to me. It's not enough for them to see his mechanical forearms and lower legs which are actual prosthetics lol.

And Daredevil / Matt Murdock looks perfectly fine without his mask :|

How and why DC has failed Victor is just f*cking beyond me.

....maybe this is the root of the problem.

Justice League by Christopher Priest Deluxe Edition-082 CYBORG human face.jpg

[Triniking1234]

I haven't gotten that far in Rebirth Justice League yet.

[Iconic]

The man is infused with advanced alien tech, can change his appearance at will, is more able-bodied than any human and somehow continues to get labeled as disabled. Make it make sense.