The double standard regarding shazam family and Wonder Woman

[Rightoya]

Welcome to any thread started by this guy.

I actually think WonderLight is far too often just doomposting, but this thread still outright proved them right about the double standard, and all the misinformations or lies here are also a very bad look.

[Midnight_v]

The following describes my experience as a comic book reader in general and person in the world who experiences pop-culture and not meant to be definitive. This is my perception: Despite instances where we're told or shown Wonder Woman is top-tier powerful, she can't escape her most iconic presentations: she needs bracelets to deflect bullets, she needs a jet to fly, she uses weapons rather than being the weapon, she fights regular people hand-to-hand. (the tv show and movies only perpetuates this and mass media presentations matter) We're not going to see Wonder Woman fly around the world to turn back time - the climax of her latest movie was that she could fly. Superman starts with him flying. Side-to-side comparisons with Shazam happen less often, but most people see him and Superman as equal or close to. Diana is generally not depicted performing the same feats. WW can be powerful and skilled and magical, but if we're talking "power," doing Superman level things is not the prevailing imagery of her. Even in the movie that everyone loves, one of the most famous images of her is holding a shield to deflect bullets. Superman letting bullets bounce off him is just a Tuesday morning.

You got it pretty early in the thread and despite the people saying "Nu-uh" to every point. I'd like to just second this post.
He media presentations overall puts it out there that she's using and invisible jet, and bracelets, but in the movie she's using a shield and that kinda dammed her again.
Outside of her deepest fans, no one ever even places her in the tier of superman (REGARDLESS whether its true or not).
I mean in death battle who'd they pair her with? Wolverine. Then she lost to rogue. . . but.

I think its cyclic.
She's not depicted as equal to captain marvel because Marvel is regarded as Superman Tier because he routinely fights superman.
There's no "kingdom come" popularity level book, where Diana is who they call to stop supes.
And while I keep hearing it hear... I don't THINK of diana as a flying brick like them. Most people don't.
While if I had to put my finger on it. I'd bet that people think she's weaker than the hulk.

So just to direct answer the thread. The best thing I ever saw her do was struggle to lift a tank. While Captain marvel is just magical superman.

I took a second a went to look specifically at the movie and in the Op was being legit and got trolled a bit. Except the trolling guy kinda points out the flaws.
She's not depicted as an equal to supes/marvel. So no one thinks of her as one. Her using he shield to slowly advance through a hail of bullets shows all you need to know.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...feats-2245846/


But why must she get her strength from fighting other heroes? why do things like this matter at all to you. Does she not look great in her own books?

[WonderLight789]

You got it pretty early in the thread and despite the people saying "Nu-uh" to every point. I'd like to just second this post.
He media presentations overall puts it out there that she's using and invisible jet, and bracelets, but in the movie she's using a shield and that kinda dammed her again.
Outside of her deepest fans, no one ever even places her in the tier of superman (REGARDLESS whether its true or not).
I mean in death battle who'd they pair her with? Wolverine. Then she lost to rogue. . . but.

I think its cyclic.
She's not depicted as equal to captain marvel because Marvel is regarded as Superman Tier because he routinely fights superman.
There's no "kingdom come" popularity level book, where Diana is who they call to stop supes.
And while I keep hearing it hear... I don't THINK of diana as a flying brick like them. Most people don't.
While if I had to put my finger on it. I'd bet that people think she's weaker than the hulk.

So just to direct answer the thread. The best thing I ever saw her do was struggle to lift a tank. While Captain marvel is just magical superman.

I took a second a went to look specifically at the movie and in the Op was being legit and got trolled a bit. Except the trolling guy kinda points out the flaws.
She's not depicted as an equal to supes/marvel. So no one thinks of her as one. Her using he shield to slowly advance through a hail of bullets shows all you need to know.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...feats-2245846/


But why must she get her strength from fighting other heroes? why do things like this matter at all to you. Does she not look great in her own books?

Once again. This is the double standard i am talking about, and a post with a lot of info that just isn't accurate.


WW is not weaker than shazam based on actual feats. She has pretty much as many fights where she is the one called to stop superman as he does. Or didn't you read Sacrifice, The witch is back, Dead Earth, injustice, JLa 96, The new 52 Superdoom, and also Circe arc, etc?

Her DCEU feats are not lower than the ones from DCEU shazam either. So i don't know where you got the idea that he was presented as stronger in the movie verse.

Diana is not a flying brick, and most people agree? Where is your proof for that? Because i could post a lot of feats proving that she is indeed a flying brick. The fact that DC likes to use her as a glorified jobber plenty of times. Doesn't mean that is all there is to her.


And lol at you saying why she needs to get her strength from fighting other heroes. When shazan has most of his feats as a result of abc logic from fighting superman. In fact, based on personal feats and not battles against others, shazam has consistently shown weaker feats than WW for 13 years now. Both in comics and in the DCEU verse.

[Rightoya]

You got it pretty early in the thread and despite the people saying "Nu-uh" to every point. I'd like to just second this post.

If just the movies would be the actual problem, nobody would ever rate Shazam as anywhere near Superman's strength.

He media presentations overall puts it out there that she's using and invisible jet

What media?

and bracelets, but in the movie she's using a shield and that kinda dammed her again.

Why?

Outside of her deepest fans, no one ever even places her in the tier of superman (REGARDLESS whether its true or not).

Wonder Woman is 1 of the first characters someone will name for a question Superman tier characters that are not Superman even among non-comicbook fans, except for the movie versions, but in the movies Wonder Woman and Shazam are actually not in the tier of Superman.

I mean in death battle who'd they pair her with? Wolverine.

Is Wolverine a Thunder God with a hammer?

Then she lost to rogue. . . but.

So Rouge > Wonder Woman > Thor?

I think its cyclic.
She's not depicted as equal to captain marvel because Marvel is regarded as Superman Tier because he routinely fights superman.

I have never seen any direct comparison between Wonder Woman and Shazam in the modern age comics where they were not clearly in the same tier.

There's no "kingdom come" popularity level book, where Diana is who they call to stop supes.

Well that is actually a good point, and i agree, that is a problem.

And while I keep hearing it hear... I don't THINK of diana as a flying brick like them. Most people don't.

While if I had to put my finger on it. I'd bet that people think she's weaker than the hulk.

So you are saying that most people including you don't even know the basics of Modern age Wonder Woman?

I even know that some people think that Hulk is stronger than Superman.

So just to direct answer the thread. The best thing I ever saw her do was struggle to lift a tank. While Captain marvel is just magical superman.

Do these things look like tanks to you:







and that are examples from 3 completely different decades and continuties, because if you just mean the movies, i don't remember Shazam lifting anything heavier than a tank in these?

I took a second a went to look specifically at the movie and in the Op was being legit and got trolled a bit. Except the trolling guy kinda points out the flaws.
She's not depicted as an equal to supes/marvel. So no one thinks of her as one. Her using he shield to slowly advance through a hail of bullets shows all you need to know.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...feats-2245846/

Do you realize that Shazam was also not at all depicted as an equal to Superman in the movies? It was so bad that even for Black Adam, who is Shazam's literal arch-villain, Superman showed up instead of Shazam because of the Rock's big ego.

But why must she get her strength from fighting other heroes? why do things like this matter at all to you. Does she not look great in her own books?

Aren't you saying that Shazam does that?

[SiegePerilous02]

But why must she get her strength from fighting other heroes? why do things like this matter at all to you. Does she not look great in her own books?

She does look great in her own books, and two of her definitive runs (Jimenez and Rucka) feature her battling Superman and holding her own. Not something Rogue or Wolverine could do, so whatever this "Death Battle" thing is, I'm not sure why it's worth anything.

That's why I can understand the annoyance when she's depicted a few tiers below that in other books and other media. I don't think there is enough in publication history to show her as being exactly on the same tier as the Kryptonians and the Marvels, but that's not excuse to show her as being significantly lower than them. Which the DCEU (especially both cuts of JL) is definitely guilty of.

[WonderLight789]

She does look great in her own books, and two of her definitive runs (Jimenez and Rucka) feature her battling Superman and holding her own. Not something Rogue or Wolverine could do, so whatever this "Death Battle" thing is, I'm not sure why it's worth anything.

That's why I can understand the annoyance when she's depicted a few tiers below that in other books and other media. I don't think there is enough in publication history to show her as being exactly on the same tier as the Kryptonians and the Marvels, but that's not excuse to show her as being significantly lower than them. Which the DCEU (especially both cuts of JL) is definitely guilty of.

In 82 years of history, she has more than enough feats to put her on the same tier as kryptonians and the marvels. Really what are all these ''legions'' of feats, you seem to sugest that the likes of mary, billy,m supergirl, powergirl have, for you to make the claim that Diana hasn0t enough publication history to put her on that level? Also the DCEU versions of supergirl and the marvels did not give them better power feats than DCEU WW. So again, your logic doesn't make sense to me.

[LordAllMIghty]

The only thing Capt. Marvel/Shazam has over Wonder Woman is durability...but like Superman, her fighting ability is superior.

If she did beat Black Adam. I assume she can beat Captain Marvel/Shamam.

[SiegePerilous02]

The only thing Capt. Marvel/Shazam has over Wonder Woman is durability...but like Superman, her fighting ability is superior.

If she did beat Black Adam. I assume she can beat Captain Marvel/Shamam.

She lost to Black Adam in Doomsday Clock.

Which was horseshit, but I think it might be the only noteworthy encounter they've had.

[WonderLight789]

She lost to Black Adam in Doomsday Clock.

Which was horseshit, but I think it might be the only noteworthy encounter they've had.

She didn't lose. The fight was interrupted. and she beat him in their fight in Rebirth.

[WonderLight789]

The only thing Capt. Marvel/Shazam has over Wonder Woman is durability...but like Superman, her fighting ability is superior.

If she did beat Black Adam. I assume she can beat Captain Marvel/Shamam.

WW has feats to put her in the same level with shazam in durabilitty against blunt force, energy attacks. But the problem here ramains. Even though they have the same power source, and a lot of big battles and statements about their power. Certain readers only give credit to shazam. While uysing different rules to rank WW. this is what so far, most people here have not been able to explain why? It is not because of feats. Because WW has the feats, battles and statements. It is not because of the movies. Because both have the same type of feats in all their live movie appearances.

[Jokerz79]

Both WW and Captain Marvel are strong enough to hold their own against Superman IMO. But CM has a few abilities to give him an edge against Superman. One his speed he has the speed of Mercury and two his powers are magic based one of Kal's few weaknesses so nailing Kal is some magic lightning is going to hurt his Kryptonian butt.

Ironically, I think Diana could take Captain Marvel in a fight pretty more soundly. Saying Diana can't beat Clark while Billy could possibly do so doesn't make her weaker than Billy just, he has a different set of powers that give him an edge.

[WonderLight789]

Both WW and Captain Marvel are strong enough to hold their own against Superman IMO. But CM has a few abilities to give him an edge against Superman. One his speed he has the speed of Mercury and two his powers are magic based one of Kal's few weaknesses so nailing Kal is some magic lightning is going to hurt his Kryptonian butt.

Ironically, I think Diana could take Captain Marvel in a fight pretty more soundly. Saying Diana can't beat Clark while Billy could possibly do so doesn't make her weaker than Billy just, he has a different set of powers that give him an edge.

I don't understand this respond. Because it is literally forgetting about important details regarding Diana's abilities. Stronger than Hercules, faster than Mercury. That is Wonder Woman's intro from Pre Crisis era. And Post Crisis she has the speed of Hermes, her powers and gear are also related to magic. So i don't understand how you got the idea she is slower or weaker than billy.

[Jokerz79]

I don't understand this respond. Because it is literally forgetting about important details regarding Diana's abilities. Stronger than Hercules, faster than Mercury. That is Wonder Woman's intro from Pre Crisis era. And Post Crisis she has the speed of Hermes, her powers and gear are also related to magic. So i don't understand how you got the idea she is slower or weaker than billy.

OK I don't understand your response. Because 1st off I never said she was weaker than Billy the exact opposite actually. I said strength wise both could hold their own with Supes and if she went one on one with Billy, she'd probably win. As for Speed she's never been shown to be as fast as CM has been portrayed as at times. She's fast but never shown as on par with a speedster fast. Billy is nowhere near as fast as Supes or Flash but he's fast enough to evade them briefly which could give him the seconds needed to win. Also, Diana doesn't fire magic lightning from herself that is the main edge Billy has that could possibly allow him to win. You'll notice I never actually say win just the possibility like all the stars must align for this to happen, but it could.

I'm sorry but you feel like one of those Batman or Wolverine fans who can't handle the idea of their fav being beaten.

Superman is my fav he can be beaten hell he's been killed.

[WonderLight789]

OK I don't understand your response. Because 1st off I never said she was weaker than Billy the exact opposite actually. I said strength wise both could hold their own with Supes and if she went one on one with Billy, she'd probably win. As for Speed she's never been shown to be as fast as CM has been portrayed as at times. She's fast but never shown as on par with a speedster fast. Billy is nowhere near as fast as Supes or Flash but he's fast enough to evade them briefly which could give him the seconds needed to win. Also, Diana doesn't fire magic lightning from herself that is the main edge Billy has that could possibly allow him to win. You'll notice I never actually say win just the possibility like all the stars must align for this to happen, but it could.

I'm sorry but you feel like one of those Batman or Wolverine fans who can't handle the idea of their fav being beaten.

Superman is my fav he can be beaten hell he's been killed.

Excuse me? Wonder Woman has feats evading and tagging both Superman and Flash. Feats tagging Zoom. Tagging shazam. Cheetah who has blitzed Superman and Flash. Feats blitzing supergirl and powergirl. Feats like the shattered God, where she blocked trillions of pieces coming from every corner of the universe. Feats runing around the globe helping superman and flash to search earth. Again. The speed of Mercury/Hermes has been part of her power set for decades. She also has Zeus lightning both Post Crisis and onwards she has shown this power.

I can handle the idea of WW being beaten. But with actual explanations that make sense. Not by making her jobb. Or by ignoring feats and powers that she also has, acting like shazam has them and she doesn't. Si far. Most answers here can't explain the double standard. As you give an answer based on shazam having abilities that WW doesn't have. Yet she actuaally has those same abilities. The speed of Mercury(Hermes, and the lightning of Zeus. She has both

[Psy-lock]

Diana is canonically faster than Captain Marvel

She's had amazing speed since the 40's