The double standard regarding shazam family and Wonder Woman

[j9ac9k]

The following describes my experience as a comic book reader in general and person in the world who experiences pop-culture and not meant to be definitive. This is my perception: Despite instances where we're told or shown Wonder Woman is top-tier powerful, she can't escape her most iconic presentations: she needs bracelets to deflect bullets, she needs a jet to fly, she uses weapons rather than being the weapon, she fights regular people hand-to-hand. (the tv show and movies only perpetuates this and mass media presentations matter) We're not going to see Wonder Woman fly around the world to turn back time - the climax of her latest movie was that she could fly. Superman starts with him flying. Side-to-side comparisons with Shazam happen less often, but most people see him and Superman as equal or close to. Diana is generally not depicted performing the same feats. WW can be powerful and skilled and magical, but if we're talking "power," doing Superman level things is not the prevailing imagery of her. Even in the movie that everyone loves, one of the most famous images of her is holding a shield to deflect bullets. Superman letting bullets bounce off him is just a Tuesday morning.

[WonderLight789]

The following describes my experience as a comic book reader in general and person in the world who experiences pop-culture and not meant to be definitive. This is my perception: Despite instances where we're told or shown Wonder Woman is top-tier powerful, she can't escape her most iconic presentations: she needs bracelets to deflect bullets, she needs a jet to fly, she uses weapons rather than being the weapon, she fights regular people hand-to-hand. (the tv show and movies only perpetuates this and mass media presentations matter) We're not going to see Wonder Woman fly around the world to turn back time - the climax of her latest movie was that she could fly. Superman starts with him flying. Side-to-side comparisons with Shazam happen less often, but most people see him and Superman as equal or close to. Diana is generally not depicted performing the same feats. WW can be powerful and skilled and magical, but if we're talking "power," doing Superman level things is not the prevailing imagery of her. Even in the movie that everyone loves, one of the most famous images of her is holding a shield to deflect bullets. Superman letting bullets bounce off him is just a Tuesday morning.

All super hgeroes fight regular people too. Also DCEU shazam is not stronger than DCEU WW. and when it comes to feats in the comics. shazam hasn't done bigger things power wise than WW in the comics.

[SiegePerilous02]

That is not true. Superman has been shown to be superior to shazam far more often than not. He has far better feats than shazam. And WW has better feats than shazam too.

Can you back that up?

Because in the Golden Age, Captain Marvel was the first to fly under his own power, shortly before Superman and long before WW. Their feats were at most comparable, if not favorable towards Marvel. Silver Age Superman riffs his feats after Captain Marvel, and in the Bronze Age the two of them teaming up and/or fighting was treated as a big deal with it being ambiguous on who was stronger. That actually even made it into the 90s in Morrisons JLA where Marvel was able to punch Superman unconscious.

[j9ac9k]

All super hgeroes fight regular people too. Also DCEU shazam is not stronger than DCEU WW. and when it comes to feats in the comics. shazam hasn't done bigger things power wise than WW in the comics.

That's all anecdotal and I won't debate you on that. It makes sense you'd want to hang your hat on evidence, but I'm talking about perception rather than precedent. (hence my disclaimer to start) And imo, perception is a big part of the explanation to the question posed by this thread topic. This isn't a "who is stronger" thread, it's about why WW is written or seen a certain way, despite evidence to the contrary.

[WonderLight789]

Can you back that up?

Because in the Golden Age, Captain Marvel was the first to fly under his own power, shortly before Superman and long before WW. Their feats were at most comparable, if not favorable towards Marvel. Silver Age Superman riffs his feats after Captain Marvel, and in the Bronze Age the two of them teaming up and/or fighting was treated as a big deal with it being ambiguous on who was stronger. That actually even made it into the 90s in Morrisons JLA where Marvel was able to punch Superman unconscious.

I am not talking about Silver or Bronze age. Where they nerfed WW because of sexism. Also in the 90s he ''ko'' sm saying he was lucky to sucker punch him, and using the advantage of sm being susceptible to magic. He was never shown equal to sm in post crisis based on raw power alone. Alsa WW has just as many statements being sm level. And since 2011. shazam feats are the weakest compared to sm and WW.

[WonderLight789]

That's all anecdotal and I won't debate you on that. It makes sense you'd want to hang your hat on evidence, but I'm talking about perception rather than precedent. (hence my disclaimer to start) And imo, perception is a big part of the explanation to the question posed by this thread topic. This isn't a "who is stronger" thread, it's about why WW is written or seen a certain way, despite evidence to the contrary.

Perception needs to have some sort of evidence. Otherwise it is just personal head canon. Shazam has never been shown as way above WW league in terms of overall feats, battles and statements throughout DC history. So the perception that she is way below him, like i have heard some people say, makes no sense based on the actual presentation and everything we have seen both characters accomplish with their power.

[Holt]

Your answer doesn't make sense.

It actually does. The cape is key to all of this.

[SiegePerilous02]

I am not talking about Silver or Bronze age. Where they nerfed WW because of sexism. Also in the 90s he ''ko'' sm saying he was lucky to sucker punch him, and using the advantage of sm being susceptible to magic. He was never shown equal to sm in post crisis based on raw power alone. Alsa WW has just as many statements being sm level. And since 2011. shazam feats are the weakest compared to sm and WW.

They didn't nerf her. You're just overstating how powerful she was in the Golden Age, they just never raised her past that level when they moved beyond.

Also, in another post you talk about "throughout DC history," but you want to exclude Silver and Bronze Age. You can't have it both ways.

[j9ac9k]

Perception needs to have some sort of evidence. Otherwise it is just personal head canon. Shazam has never been shown as way above WW league in terms of overall feats, battles and statements throughout DC history. So the perception that she is way below him, like i have heard some people say, makes no sense based on the actual presentation and everything we have seen both characters accomplish with their power.

I'm not going to go back and forth on this - sure, there's evidence that demonstrates the ceiling of WW's power, but there's certainly evidence for Shazam as well, where you can't just write it off as head canon:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/billy...-feats-660394/

[WonderLight789]

They didn't nerf her. You're just overstating how powerful she was in the Golden Age, they just never raised her past that level when they moved beyond.

Also, in another post you talk about "throughout DC history," but you want to exclude Silver and Bronze Age. You can't have it both ways.

They did nerf her. She never performed at Golden age lecel in Silver and Bronze age.

Yes i talked about DC history. There is more than 80 years of history for WW. SG being stronger than one era version of WW from 50 years ago. Does not make her stronger overall throughout all DC history. And if yo want to respect the basics so much. Make WW equal to SM again. Since she was created to be his equal since day 1. You want SG stronger than Diana based on one era in DC comics from 50 years ago. But you don't want Diana being equal to any kryptonians let alone superman, even though she was originally, and is meant to be his equal since her creation. Welcome to this thread. It talks about a double standard, and you clearly have one

[Psy-lock]

A lot of writers just have little respect for Wonder Woman. When they say that Supergirl and Jon Kent are more powerful than her, a character was supposed to be no man's inferior...Ideally, Superman, WW and Shazam should be equal in power.

[WonderLight789]

I'm not going to go back and forth on this - sure, there's evidence that demonstrates the ceiling of WW's power, but there's certainly evidence for Shazam as well, where you can't just write it off as head canon:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/billy...-feats-660394/

I know he has power feats that make him powerful. But so does WW. And they boty have the same type of power source. So the dopuble standard some people have regarding WW compared to shazam is very silly.

[SiegePerilous02]

They did nerf her. She never performed at Golden age lecel in Silver and Bronze age.

Yes i talked about DC history. There is more than 80 years of history for WW. SG being stronger than one era version of WW from 50 years ago. Does not make her stronger overall throughout all DC history. And if yo want to respect the basics so much. Make WW equal to SM again. Since she was created to be his equal since day 1. You want SG stronger than Diana based on one era in DC comics from 50 years ago. But you don't want Diana being equal to any kryptonians let alone superman, even though she was originally, and is meant to be his equal since her creation. Welcome to this thread. It talks about a double standard, and you clearly have one

I'm not the one wanting to go back to basics. That would be you by citing Marston. But the stone cold fact is, she hasn't been in Marston's hands for the majority of her publication history, for the majority of it she's been under DC and they are pretty consistent with feeling that Kryptonians are the strongest. And even in the Golden Age, people of average strength could knock her out with a blow to the base of her skull, which is not something that you would see happen to any of the Supers.

Silver Age Supergirl at her peak was stronger than all versions of WW. So I'm fine with Kryptonians being stronger than her. Maybe it's a double standard, but why constantly talk about it?

[mace11]

Post crisis shazam/captain marvel Durability was higher then superman and wonder woman.
Post flashpoint/rebirth shazam i am not sure if it's higher then superman or not.

Going back to shazam's post crisis strength.
It was equal to superman but i am not sure if the currrent canon version is equal to post flashpoint/rebirth superman.
He could be weaker but post flashpoint black adam's strength is equal to superman.

[WonderLight789]

I'm not the one wanting to go back to basics. That would be you by citing Marston. But the stone cold fact is, she hasn't been in Marston's hands for the majority of her publication history, for the majority of it she's been under DC and they are pretty consistent with feeling that Kryptonians are the strongest. And even in the Golden Age, people of average strength could knock her out with a blow to the base of her skull, which is not something that you would see happen to any of the Supers.

Silver Age Supergirl at her peak was stronger than all versions of WW. So I'm fine with Kryptonians being stronger than her. Maybe it's a double standard, but why constantly talk about it?

False, peak sg was not stronbger than all versions of WW. And WW has been stronger than supergirl and powergirl in most of DC history. You seem to be bias against her. You want her top be weaker than all kryptonians, shazam, mary etc. Is WW allowed to be as strong as aquaman in your world? sigh.

Why talk about it? Because double standards are not ok in my book. It shows bias.