The double standard regarding shazam family and Wonder Woman

[Midnight_v]

She does look great in her own books, and two of her definitive runs (Jimenez and Rucka) feature her battling Superman and holding her own. Not something Rogue or Wolverine could do, so whatever this "Death Battle" thing is, I'm not sure why it's worth anything.

That's why I can understand the annoyance when she's depicted a few tiers below that in other books and other media. I don't think there is enough in publication history to show her as being exactly on the same tier as the Kryptonians and the Marvels, but that's not excuse to show her as being significantly lower than them. Which the DCEU (especially both cuts of JL) is definitely guilty of.

Kinda my point. I've never really seen diana in her own book because I don't buy it so I only ever picked up a few, and what I see from her in any group outing being treated like she's some planet tipping hero.
of course I answered honestly and didn't realize I was in "rabid storm-fan" territory though.
but.. As an avid comic reader... at the end of the Day the answer to the question is that "Shazam" is considered a rival to superman and diana isn't.
Ideas are stronger than facts, and you get what you're describing because WW is PERCEIVED as being much weaker and slower than supes. regardless of what feats you can dig up.

The DCEU didn't show her be the foil to the big bad, thats, supes, and since it "relatively" easy to see supes square up with Black adam or Shazam they inherit through inference some measure of perceived strength.
Though really they're not supposed to be fighting each other at all as heroes and that's what's unsatisfying about this entire complaint.

Because Diana doesn’t wear her cape often enough.

I missed this post. Damn. I get it, LOL.

[WonderLight789]

Kinda my point. I've never really seen diana in her own book because I don't buy it so I only ever picked up a few, and what I see from her in any group outing being treated like she's some planet tipping hero.
of course I answered honestly and didn't realize I was in "rabid storm-fan" territory though.
but.. As an avid comic reader... at the end of the Day the answer to the question is that "Shazam" is considered a rival to superman and diana isn't.
Ideas are stronger than facts, and you get what you're describing because WW is PERCEIVED as being much weaker and slower than supes. regardless of what feats you can dig up.

The DCEU didn't show her be the foil to the big bad, thats, supes, and since it "relatively" easy to see supes square up with Black adam or Shazam they inherit through inference some measure of perceived strength.
Though really they're not supposed to be fighting each other at all as heroes and that's what's unsatisfying about this entire complaint.


I missed this post. Damn. I get it, LOL.

Perceived much weaker by whom? There are countless statements saying she is in Superman class? She also has a lot of feats performing big power moments. The DCEU movies literally showed shazam having the same power feats as her. So where did you get the idea that he was stronger there?

[Triniking1234]

Shazam and Wonder Woman are barely compared to each other as they are compared to Superman plus Shazam writers tend to actually focus on his god powers more than Wonder Woman writers do with her powers.

So if DC is putting out books where Shazam and Black Adam can summon lightning that can hurt Superman and they can share their powers with other mortals and still somehow be on Superman's and Wonder Woman's level, I can see how the average reader can think Shazam and Black Adam are stronger than WW.

[dswynne]

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we fans think; it's what DC and WB wants to push. Superman is the flagship character, and WW is part of the sacred "Trinity". Those two will supplant Shazam's place in the hierarchy of power always, no matter how strong, how fast and how tough Shazam is. Nevertheless, I do hope that under Mark Waid's direction, we'll get a more fleshed-out character, particularly where his power-set is concerned. Just make Shazam interesting, and I will be satisfied.

[dietrich]

I usually see some comic fans talking about how the marvel family, shazam, mary are equal to superman but WW isn't. And saying shazam is far above WW in power, because the powers from multiple Gods, even though WW also has powers from multiple Gods. And she has been for decades, introduced as stronger than Hercules, faster than Mercury and Wise as Athena. They have the same type of power source and power statements. Yet they love to say he is above WW. This is the typical case of female characters getting the short end of the stick. Statements, feats, battles. WW has had plenty of history publicastion proving her power. Yet we must think of her as ant, next to characters whose overall catalogue does not have better power showings than her. Make it make sense.

Perceived much weaker by whom? There are countless statements saying she is in Superman class?

Make it make sense

[dietrich]

Fan knowledge varies as does the source. OP just because you have in-depth knowledge of WW, Sipes amd Shazam doesn't mean most out there do.

Fans who grew up with images of Billy and Clark having bullets bounce off them while Diana needs magic bracelets or a shield to stop the bullets from hitting her are going to walk away with the impression that she is weaker since she's uses external aids to prevent bullets from hitting her!

The DCEU movies might show her performing the same feats as Billy but do you know how hard it is to reverse a longstanding ingrained idea? WW blocking bullets with her bracelets is well known pop culture sadly it's one that automatically leads to the rationale, she's needs to.

That logically would lead to fans who don't follow her comics viewing as as less powerful compared to characters who known to simile unbothered as bullets bounce off their eyeballs/chest.

[Alpha]

That's not from Marston. That's from Kanigher. Who is the same writers Wonderlight was accusing of having nerfed Wonder Woman in the Silver Age (unless he meant the depowered period under O'Neill, which wasn't about making her weaker than Superman)

That's not from any continuity. That's from Black & Gold, an anthology book where a writers does whatever they want with a character

[WonderLight789]

That's not from any continuity. That's from Black & Gold, an anthology book where a writers does whatever they want with a character

Black and Gold is canon.

Also writers do whatever they want with characters all the time regarding power levels. Since most writers still seem to use the logic that cxharacters are as powerful as the plot needs them to be.

[WonderLight789]

Make it make sense

What do i need to make sense?

I hear people here saying shazam has godly powers, but so does WW. I hear people say he shows his powers more, but in reality, he doesn't show his powers in big ways morre often than her. So obviously i look at those answers and find them inaccurate.

[Alpha]

Black and Gold is canon.

in one of the stories Steve Trevor died in World War 2

in some stories Hippolyta is blonde, in others she is a brunette.

Etta Candy is white and blonde even though at this point she has dark brown skin and dark hair. In that same story the adventure takes place in Gateway City (which is from the 90s) even though it's using the Golden Age version of these characters


Wonder Woman Black % Gold wasn't ever canon, and every story creates it's own different version of Wonder Woman and her world, outside any single continuity.

[Alpha]

So yeah, this isn't from the Marston era, this was written by Robert kanigher, who wrote most of Silver Age and Bronze Age Wonder Woman.

And just to makes things clearer, here's a scene from a story Marston wrote, wherein Diana gets knocked out by being hit in the head with the but end of a gun



Golden Age was wildly inconsistent

[WonderLight789]

So yeah, this isn't from the Marston era, this was written by Robert kanigher, who wrote most of Silver Age and Bronze Age Wonder Woman.

And just to makes things clearer, here's a scene from a story Marston wrote, wherein Diana gets knocked out by being hit in the head with the but end of a gun



Golden Age was wildly inconsistent

The planet feat is Marston. If you don't mind, post the issue number please, because i don't remember.

And comics were and still are wild in general. So let's not act like WW is the only one.

[WonderLight789]

in one of the stories Steve Trevor died in World War 2

in some stories Hippolyta is blonde, in others she is a brunette.

Etta Candy is white and blonde even though at this point she has dark brown skin and dark hair. In that same story the adventure takes place in Gateway City (which is from the 90s) even though it's using the Golden Age version of these characters


Wonder Woman Black % Gold wasn't ever canon, and every story creates it's own different version of Wonder Woman and her world, outside any single continuity.

It's canon. You always seem to want to debunk any good feasts that Diana may have. Intersting.

[Alpha]

The planet feat is Marston. If you don't mind, post the issue number please, because i don't remember.

And comics were and still are wild in general. So let's not act like WW is the only one.

In the planet feat Diana talks about Brutex. Which is a character created in 1949.

William Moulton Marston died in 1947

According to DC Database the only appearance of Brutex was in Wonder Woman 38 (1949)

So I'm guessing that panel is from that issue

Robert Kanigher was the writer

[Alpha]

[removed double post]