Gotham - FOX TV Show Discussion

[Vic Vega]

Was Penguin and Fish having a affair or something? The rubbing feet scene looked like a give away.

Fish said Oswald was like a son to her ( just before she beat hell out of him) so I kinda hope not.

One of the things the show seems to be making a point of, is showing how Gotham got to the point
where it is messed up enough to need Batman.

Fish Mooney is crazier than Falcone (she is willing to kill 2 Cops) and now proto Pengy straight up murdered a dude for a sandwich.

And this was only the first episode.

[Kid A]

It is still better than anything on the networks.

Person of Interest is a billion times more intelligent and insightful than House of Cards.

[Beantownbrown]

I hope they really focus on the mob. I'd like to see how they ran and controlled Gotham. I don't care about a crazy little Ivy or even a young Selina. I want to see Falcone and his goons. I loved Fish Mooney; I want to see more of her.

[josai21]

The thing I want to see most of and know that I'm probably going to see least of is the psychology of a young Bruce Wayne. How does this boy grow into the most insane badass of all time? I think the kid has the acting chops for it, but I wish we could have seen what lead up to him deciding to conquer fear as opposed to just seeing him on the roof.

Also, I get the feeling that Alfred will be played as more of the permissive parent. Which is kinda necessary for Bruce to grow as he does...Jim being the more parental figure? I don't know. Hm...

[Tupiaz]

Was Penguin and Fish having a affair or something? The rubbing feet scene looked like a give away.

No, that was to established how was the master and was the employee, There was more sexual tension between Bullock and Fish than between Fish and Penguin.

[Stormcrow]

Since they believe both Gordon and Bullock to be corrupt it make sense that they are self-righteous. You can expect to have the relationship Montoya and Bullock has been seen having simply because Bullock is so corrupt as he is. Bullock is no longer the cop who wants to solve crimes but sometimes goes out of bounce to solve the case. He is now a dirty cop how don't care about his jobs or victims. Therefore Montoya approach to him is also different.

I understand that, but I just foud the actors really unlikeable. Allen smiling like and idiot all the time and bitch Montoya (who might also look a little bit too old) didn't appeal to me at all. And not to be that guy, but they were nothing like the comic book characters.

That and "Ivy Pepper" kind of annoyed me quite a bit, but having a character named MARIO PEPPER and expect us to take the show seriously is just ridiculous.

[Vidocq]

I was wondering were the Nit Pick brigade was when the TV/Film thread was mostly positive.

[NewMutant]

This pilot had a bad case of the "pilots". It has the concept but not the clearest direction. I like the nod to Bruce, but I'd prefer if we not see him around that much. Alfred seemed either terribly cast/portrayed or this take on Alfred is not a favorable one. I found including Ivy completely unnecessary; she didn't do anything, they changed her name, and the pilot was overstuffed as it is. We get it... its GOTHAM. Lets be a tad subtle.

Making Renee and Barbra exes was an interesting twist, though I'm not sure where I stand on that but could be fun. I wanted Gotham to be a bit darker and dirtier, the cinematography was good but it felt too sleek. Poor Barbra Gordan will be have to suffer being a hot young housewife in their beautiful apartment with great city views... I mean come on. haha. This was mostly set up and no stand out performances. It's Batverse, its Gotham, there is something THERE. Many shows have had rougher pilots and even season and then I later got hooked.

A Gotham Central meets Year One is what would really make this series take off for me. Its possible and they are close. We just need more focus on the GCPD before half ass them, villains, and Bruce.

[doodledude]

Person of Interest is a billion times more intelligent and insightful than House of Cards.

You are definitely smoking good weed.The english version was even better than the american version.

[Kid A]

I have yet to see the British version, but I mean, House of Cards is the kind of show that everyone just seemed to have agreed is the next greatest show before it even came out. It's great from an entertainment point of view about an amoral asshole rising to power and screwing people over, but that's it. It's not remotely deep and doesn't really have any insights ( and doesn't try to be), and yet you have people in this thread claiming it's in this elite class of tv shows with Breaking Bad, The Wire, etc.

I mean yeah network television is mediocre on average, but it does reach highs in the case like Person of Interest, where they're weaving together this amazing science fiction thriller about AI that blurs into the real world, so yeah I don't think HoC is better than all network shows. But as to where Gotham fits into all this, we'll just have to see.

[Flash Gordon]

Someone here just said ARROW is just as good as BREAKING BAD- I'm out of the discussion.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

OMG! Stop it already! I've been watching Supernatural faithfully thanks to my friends turning me on to the show after they found out I was a Vampire Diaries fan. Supernatural is an excellent show and you've got to watch it for what it is and not for what it is not!

Seriously, stop trying to compare shows like Gotham or Arrow to the over-hyped, blown out of proportion, over-worshipped so called 'adult' programming such as Breaking Bad, 'Dexter', 'Monk', and House of Cards; all of which I have watched and find to be incredibly damnable and lame. The Walking Dead isn't horribly bad but it certainly isn't as good as AMC's Hell on Wheels or CBS's freaking good Person of Interest. After season 3 The Walking Dead just got awful to me. Game of Thrones on the other hand is a whole different animal. It has the potential to be an excellent show but it keeps getting bogged down with trying to be a porn show, it gets bogged down with some of the most despicable characters like Joffrey, who, thank God, is finally DEAD! It also suffers from continually getting hung up on continually explicit scenes of female characters and feels more like a show that is trying to pander to a 'stuck in his mom's basement twisted virgin's sexual passions then being an actually good medieval historical fantasy. However, this last two season's of 'Thrones' were pretty dang good and Bran and Hodar's journey is the stuff that legends are made of. Game of Thrones want's to be this decade's Lord of the Rings but the real fantasy gems on TV right now are CBS's 'Under The Dome' TNT's 'Falling Skies', 'Sleepy Hollow' and ABC's Once Upon A Time. But the books are even better than the show but then again, I've always been a bookworm. It's too bad Harry Potter and The Sandman hasn't found a way into television yet.

Anyway, I don't want to get off topic from 'Gotham'. I just wish we could just discuss and enjoy 'Gotham' for the excellent entertainment it is instead of trying to tear it down and compare it to other shows that aren't nearly as good and are just OVER hyped.

OMG! I didn't even start, I said that it looks cheesy, not that it was, because I wouldn't know.
The fame of those shown is not blown out of proportion, generally ranking better for people with enough reference is not the same as being some sort of quintessential series. They are not really a type of show (House, Monk and Boston Legal are certainly not the same kind of animal as GOT, which is also different from Breaking Bad or House of Cards) and they are not perfect, they are just some random list of shows that are easily better than of Gotham, which has big problems when it comes to dialog and direction in general. I wouldn't mention shows that are just a little better because debating close shades of gray is useless (I'd watch the X-files, Colombo, Magnum, Quantum Leap, Poirot and even Desperate Housewives any day over that, but that's just me). I don't watch any of the shows you brought up, but they might as well be among the best. One thing that I think you misconstrued is that I'm somehow claiming that shows need to be "adult" or show nudity to be good, but read the list again, House and Boston Legal and specially monk are not adult in that sense. Again, those are some I know to be easily better than what we have seen from Gotham. From the same writer, I enjoy the Mentalist a bit better, but I've only watched a handful of episodes.

Now. You know Gotham is bad. You have all the elements, you are just resisting to put them together. You said the other shows are just "over hyped"... More hyped than a show about Batman? Gotham had a head start by virtue of the franchise but it blew is by not delivering which is the reason you don't perceive it as hyped or praised so far. If I didn't know the characters, I don't think the story was that bad, the problem were the lines and the direction, which contrasts to strongly with the high aim. And that makes quite a difference.

I enjoy House of Cards, but let's not pretend the show is anything more than thin high production camp.

I'm not sure what your concept of camp is, but it's not a bad thing on its own. I don't think HOC has much greater production values than Gotham, the later only lacks certain key people to do a proper execution. The plot was fine, the teleplay was corny and the direction sucked.

[GrandKaiser]

Introducing way too many characters and easter eggs, and it's only been one episode. Would have preferred a tighter cast with a bigger build up, and maybe some easter eggs and nods to the comics along the way. This just went too far.

[doodledude]

Someone here just said ARROW is just as good as BREAKING BAD- I'm out of the discussion.

I love Arrow but Breaking Bad is just on another level.It's like comparing the Sopranos to Agents of Sheild.Different genres and different levels in tone.Some writing is just more adult and cerebral.Both can be entertaining though.And I would like to add Boardwalk Empire to great shows on right now though many just don't get it.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Sure some people are born with better changes than others but people aren't born with empathy that is something you learn as a child. If not then you grow up being a sociopath/psychopath. People being narcissistic is also a trait that can develop over time especially since if you don't get enough attention or respect. People aren't just born with traits and is in fact a very debatable subject. to dismiss the importance of environment complete is something I have never seen.

Enviroinment is important, but ASPD and NPD just shows up and there is no effective cure. Look it up.

Hell, even brain damage plays a more important role than environment when it comes to that type of disorders (no, seriously).

And while you are at it, check "temperament", the whole point of the concept is that it's all genetics. If you are born choleric, that's it. You can do all the yoga you want.

So, no. A person can't go from a melancholic rat to a choleric Cartman-type with NPD, much less as an adult. However, confidence is something that a person can gain with experience, considering that the Gotham version already lacks empathy and is quite cunning, the result after some seasons might be close to characterization in Pain and Prejudice.