Gotham - FOX TV Show Discussion

[chipsnopotatoes]

I thought you were pro femme fatale?

Nu52 Cats isn't a femme fatale. Prior to Genevieve, she's actually written more like Barbara Kean (aka pathetic mess). Besides, Selina is too young to femme fatale anyone here and I'd rather they don't rush her into growing up. As it is, I'm really enjoying her portrayal as a teen (complete with rudeness and awkward mannerisms). I've grown to love how she's such a tough smart cookie that can see through people's bullshit. She reminds me very much of Arya from Game of Thrones.

Anyway, despite her being a tomboy now, I have no doubt she'll grow into her destined role when she's good and ready as opposed to being manipulated into it by someone else. She already has Bruce wrapped around her finger. She has natural instincts, that one.

Look at this video. She doesn't need lessons nor expensive hand me downs from Barbara.

[Punisher007]

She's what, like 13-14? She doesn't need to be in "femme fatale" mod yet. Not only would it strain credulity given her age/background, but it'd just be plain creepy.

Regardless of whether or not he turns out to be THE Joker, can we please bring Jerome back at some point? He's REALLY good.

[theonetruebatman]

This show for me is the equivalent of taking all of your favorite Batman comics and putting them in an oil drum and striking a match. Sure, it might keep you warm for a while and look pretty and all your favorite characters are together. But then you have to remember it's burning and all fires have to go out. The way they are burning through storylines haphazardly by the end of season two there isn't going to be any story to tell that isn't full of regurgitated dialogue and recycled storylines.

This show should have been a mob vs cop show. We certainly deserve a better mob storyline (aside from the the amazing Penguin portrayal) than we are getting with the hammy Fish Mooney. Where are characters like Rupert Thorne? Or if you really wanted to make it fun bring in Carl Grissom as a nod back to Batman 1989. Give us the 5 families of Gotham instead of unbelievable motivations for villains that shouldn't be seen for at least another 9 seasons.

[Punisher007]

Except that then you have lots of people whining about how there needs to be more Batman stuff in it. They're going to get slammed no matter what they do.

[godisawesome]

She's what, like 13-14? She doesn't need to be in "femme fatale" mod yet. Not only would it strain credulity given her age/background, but it'd just be plain creepy.

Regardless of whether or not he turns out to be THE Joker, can we please bring Jerome back at some point? He's REALLY good.

I think they did a good job of making her seem like the pre-teen equivalent to a femme fatale around Bruce. She was using some charisma and flirtation on him, but only because she seems to have a bit of a crush on him and sympathize with his loss. And having Bruce suspect she had ulterior motives in daring him to kiss her was hilarious!

Personally, my biggest problem with the series so far is that they either don't seem to have any solid subplot fans for some of the characters, or they rush through the good ones they have. Selina staying at the Manor and escaping an assassin with Bruce was an engaging and fun storyline. But otherwise, she's basically been making cameo appearances instead of actual storyline developments.

I really wish they would have built off the idea of her roof-hopping being tied to Bruce's future skill at the job, or his ability to recognize quality merchandise perhaps leading to her expertise in the matter when she grows up. Even now, after she revealed that she didn't see the killer, I think they could do something like this and take their time with it. Setting a slow methodical pace worked great for most of the Penguin's story thus far. I'd love about five or six episodes of Selina teaching Bruce how to navigate Gotham and to understand how life is like for others, and for Bruce to start to develop the empathy that makes him more than a vengeful crusader.

[PretenderNX01]

Except that then you have lots of people whining about how there needs to be more Batman stuff in it. They're going to get slammed no matter what they do.

Yeah, I think they do a good balance of not too much of any one thing.
A little mob here, a little pre-Bats there. People complain when it's too camp, or too dark or too much of a procedural or not enough Bullock/Gordon, it isn't tied into Batman enough or it's too many callbacks to bat-mythology.

Regardless of whether or not he turns out to be THE Joker, can we please bring Jerome back at some point? He's REALLY good.

I agree, he's pretty compelling and such a good actor.

I liked her more when she was in Gotham. I doubt she'll be gone long, but the longer she is, the more we stray from the show's premise.

I don't know that Duhlmacher is that compelling of a character to keep this storyline interesting.

I'm a little grossed by Dollmaker but yeah I do wonder what their plan for her is. She was tied into Gotham's mob war and now she's separated from everyone else. I would assume they won't off her from afar but I wonder how it's all getting tied up. We know Dollmaker was mentioned early on with the orphans. I dunno.

[EdwardNigma]

I want to see more with Penguin and Riddler together.

[90'sCartoonMan]

What was Fish thinking? Did she actually think she had any power in this position?

Well, she kept them from getting what they wanted and kept herself alive. She's still dealing with a middle man, though, and he's not going to really risk upsetting the whole system or else Dollmaker will come back really pissed at him.

Pretty sure this was the rejected premise of a show from a few years back.

I believe it was to be called Bruce Wayne and it evolved into Smallville. The problem with a Bruce Wayne traveling the Earth show is you can't really have a strong supporting cast in every episode. Having Harvey Dent be his buddy that eventually goes dark would be harder to fit in every episode than the easy solution Smallville had with Lex Luthor. Also, Smallville had the idea of using kryptonite to mutate people into having powers so the powered Clark Kent could fight them. Cooler and more open to various ideas than Bruce always fighting ninjas or gun toting mobsters. What Gotham is going is good, though, since there is the procedural Gotham PD aspect to it and they aren't afraid to show various skills and gimmicks (notice how Bullock is developing a hatred of guys in masks). This show has a young Bruce Wayne AND Gotham in it.

This show for me is the equivalent of taking all of your favorite Batman comics and putting them in an oil drum and striking a match. Sure, it might keep you warm for a while and look pretty and all your favorite characters are together. But then you have to remember it's burning and all fires have to go out. The way they are burning through storylines haphazardly by the end of season two there isn't going to be any story to tell that isn't full of regurgitated dialogue and recycled storylines.

This show should have been a mob vs cop show. We certainly deserve a better mob storyline (aside from the the amazing Penguin portrayal) than we are getting with the hammy Fish Mooney. Where are characters like Rupert Thorne? Or if you really wanted to make it fun bring in Carl Grissom as a nod back to Batman 1989. Give us the 5 families of Gotham instead of unbelievable motivations for villains that shouldn't be seen for at least another 9 seasons.

They could easily bring in those other organized crime figures later. And not all the plots are being burned through quickly. Not while Eddie is still working for the GCPD, anyway.

[Abishai100]

The last episode featuring the bold and barbaric Red Hood Gang intimated at the introduction of the Dollmaker, an eccentric Bat-villain who makes dolls out of the limbs and skins of his human victims, sort of like the iconic American horror film avatar Leatherface from Tobe Hooper's seminal fear-fest themed "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (1974).

We know that "Gotham" (Fox TV) is presenting pre-Batman stories about a young detective Jim Gordon dealing with a Gotham City seething with criminality and mania and slowly giving rise to future super-villains such as Penguin, Dollmaker, and Poison Ivy.

It's interesting that the writers chose to lump together the Red Hood and Dollmaker in the same episode, and Dollmaker was also hinted at in the episode "Selina Kyle" (09/29/2014) in which two eerie child kidnappers were presumably abducting homeless children from the streets and trying to ship them to Asia (possibly for strange experiments conducted by the Dollmaker).

It does seem that the writers of "Gotham" (Fox TV) are focused on creating an urbanization-paranoia relevant storyboard atmosphere of 'vigilantism hives.'

I'd like to see an episode featuring a mass prison or Arkham breakout which requires Jim Gordon to assist in a massive quarantine assignment (i.e., transporting all registered citizens by truckloads out of the city while securing all exit routes out of the city to prevent the criminals/maniacs from leaving).






Street Justice (TV)

Dollmaker (Batman Wikia)


city-lights.jpg

[PretenderNX01]

No squeamish moments this week Though the rag-doll look of Jefferey Combs was a bit of a shocker. Dr. Dullmacher (sp?) has some really good skills and can do more intracte transplanting that is currently possible. Not that this is the first time Gotham is a little sci-fi like "Venom"

I want to see more with Penguin and Riddler together.

That would be cool, I was glad to see some more of both of them and it wasn't too crazy. They both tie in Mosley to the main plot.

Well, she kept them from getting what they wanted and kept herself alive. She's still dealing with a middle man, though, and he's not going to really risk upsetting the whole system or else Dollmaker will come back really pissed at him.

Yeah, I think the end reveal when she's looking out at the ocean was meant to show she was trying to bide her time until escape but that's going to be a whole lot harder than she thought. I don't think she wanted to be a part of his scam to much, she just wants out. Get in the captor's good graces is one way to survive.

I believe it was to be called Bruce Wayne and it evolved into Smallville. The problem with a Bruce Wayne traveling the Earth show is you can't really have a strong supporting cast in every episode.

I guess WB Film wanted Batman to themselves and so WB TV had to let it go but then went on to develop a young Superman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Wayne_(TV_series)
It too featured a bunch of pre-Batman versions of the villains.

They could easily bring in those other organized crime figures later. And not all the plots are being burned through quickly. Not while Eddie is still working for the GCPD, anyway.

Yeah, we've only got 4 episodes left this season so I don't think the mob war is going away but it could change and that could open doors for newer families like maybe the Thornes or maybe Roland Dagget. They have to save something for season 2.

[Agent Z]

what if Gotham is actually a prequel to the 1960s Batman tv series?: http://io9.com/what-if-gotham-is-act...tma-1689145092

[The Darknight Detective]

what if Gotham is actually a prequel to the 1960s Batman tv series?: http://io9.com/what-if-gotham-is-act...tma-1689145092

I'm not seeing it at all. The '60s show was a comedy, while Gotham isn't.

[tabo61]

I like how Cobblepot is becoming more ruthless. What he did to that crooked married couple? Ouch!!!!

[ispacehead]

This week's episode was kinda meh.

The best scenes were the hospital scenes with Alfred, Bruce, Gordon, and Selina I thought.

Fish Mooney's storyline continues to wander further and further from being interesting.

I'd guess she'll be returning to Gotham in Dulmacher's employ. Meh.

As much as I am enjoying the show, I think their reluctance to kill Fish and Butch is kinda wimpy. Fish seems like she was just created to get skewered by Penguin. When she escaped, Butch should have gotten it. I understand that it's a comic book style series, but I'd like it if they took an extra page from the Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire. Let's see some fatalities already. Introduce a new criminal element as a foil to Cobblepot's storyline next season.

It does make sense to give Oswald a mentor, as he's obviously pretty green still, but Butch??

Gordon vs Loeb was fun, if not explosively so. Nice to see Gordon's slow progression continue.

Hopefully next week will be a little more exciting.

[Crimson Knight]

No squeamish moments this week Though the rag-doll look of Jefferey Combs was a bit of a shocker. Dr. Dullmacher (sp?) has some really good skills and can do more intracte transplanting that is currently possible. Not that this is the first time Gotham is a little sci-fi like "Venom"


That would be cool, I was glad to see some more of both of them and it wasn't too crazy. They both tie in Mosley to the main plot.


Yeah, I think the end reveal when she's looking out at the ocean was meant to show she was trying to bide her time until escape but that's going to be a whole lot harder than she thought. I don't think she wanted to be a part of his scam to much, she just wants out. Get in the captor's good graces is one way to survive.



I guess WB Film wanted Batman to themselves and so WB TV had to let it go but then went on to develop a young Superman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Wayne_(TV_series)
It too featured a bunch of pre-Batman versions of the villains.


Yeah, we've only got 4 episodes left this season so I don't think the mob war is going away but it could change and that could open doors for newer families like maybe the Thornes or maybe Roland Dagget. They have to save something for season 2.

For spelling, it's Dulmacher, I believe.

Yeah, besides the stuff with Bruce and Wayne Enterprises, Fish and Dulmacher, Penguin and Butch etc, there's The Ogre coming up as well as whatever comes up amidst this election, the finale, all that.

Still, having to wait until April - month of Game of Thrones, Daredevil, The Messengers, Olympus etc - to see what happens next.

And, ah, it's some painful wait. Least I've got Community, iZombie, The Flash, Supernatural and Arrow in two weeks.