Gotham - FOX TV Show Discussion

[AngelsXDemons]

I did not complain about the show not being dark enough. I think it is too dark if you want to go after the "middle ground" of demographics. That doesn't mean we need unicorns and a moral at the end of each episode but making the overt violence less bloody on screen and performing more of it off camera would be better.

PG-13 is not appropriate for general audiences. You should not take a kid into a PG-13 movie.

Most of the games you listed get bumped up in ratings because you are killing people (rather than destroying robots and/or "knocking them out"). Beyond that, the way the killing is shown is also an issue (if you just shot someone with a gun and they fall to the ground is less graphic than shooting someone, watching the bullet blow off their leg). Additionally, games put players in an active rather than passive role. Games should be rated more strictly than movies because you are actively seeking out and creating the violence rather than it simply being presented to you. Beyond that, the amount of time one plays a game vastly outstrips the time one watches a movie. The rating system errs on the caution. Remember the average age of a video game player is almost 30. Kids are not really the core demographic any more. Games are designed for adults should stay in their hands.

Almost every in-continuity, Big Two comic produced now-a-days are rated T. They are not designed nor targeted towards kids. In fact I cringed when I saw Toys-R-Us selling Death of the Family comics right next to all the action figures whose core demographic is not Teens but children.

I guess opinion is more subjective and relative because when I've gone to the theater to see PG and PG-13 movies such as Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men First Class, The Hunger Games, Man of Steel, Maleficent, Snow White & the Hunts and NOAH I saw quite a vast array of children which appeared to be as young as the ages of nine or eleven with their parents. I know personally know families who have taken their kids with them to PG-13 movies and who continue to do so often. Again, I believe that it's all up to the parental discretion of the parent. When I saw Man of Steel, X-Men and NOAH at the theaters it was more sons and their dads at the movies. My personal opinion for a movie like True Grit or The Fast and the Furious I wouldn't take a child under the age of 11 or 12 to see either of those types of movie but I would take a 11 year old to see a movie like Kingsman The Secret Service.

But seriously, I agree that Batman Death of the Family isn't the best comic story arc to share with a adolescent under the age of at least twelve but then again it depends on what that kid is able to handle mentally. I've seen kids reading some manga which can get pretty dark. Even Naruto get's dark and lots of kids around the age of ten read that. But really, Marvel Comics and DC Comics is in my opinion are safe for kids ages twelve and up. Stuff like Superman and Batman is what I was raised on by my parents as a kid and I'll raise my kids on it. I grew up watching the Tim Burton Batman movies and watching the dark cartoon Batman The Animated Series along with Justice League Animated. DC Comics and Marvel have an appeal that transcends age and that is as it should be. Heck, in my day kids grew up on stuff like Jurassic Park and re-runs of the gritty Indiana Jones movies. What the heck? Are we going to go soft now all of a sudden?

[doodledude]

Or a certain famous detective from London.

Nah DC has to many roof top runners and vigialantes in their years of publication to do that.Sherlock Holmes is all over the place these days 2 recent movies and 2 tv shows is enough of him.Crimson Avenger would be better he predated Batman in Detective Comics and could be cool if mixed with Geoff Johns JSA version.Kinda like this

[PretenderNX01]

I don't like how the Wayne murder was shot. It looked like the guy was out to kill them

I think they were establishing he was out to kill him.

I still find the execution scene odd but it goes back to me not seeing Bullock as someone who is what would traditionally be called corrupt.

From what I read on the Wiki for Bullock the first issues with him in it had him as a possibly corrupt cop which is what I guess influenced this version. Otherwise he's usually seen as his Animated counterpart in being tough but not crossing the line.

I thought so too, but wasn't sure. I'll have to take a look again. I think fans are beating up the writers of this show way too soon.

From what I've seen of Facebook comments, the non-hardcore fans were pretty happy with Gotham as I am. I would call myself medium-core having read a fair amount of comics and followed animated and live-action adaptions.

If you watch the Gotham Reborn pre-show, they explain that they filmed NYC from a helicopter and then used CGI to add the gargoyles and the Gotham skyline over the NYC buildings.

I guess he recognized the CGI places? People have an idea of what city's are and it's interesting how they see them. Even Rami's Spider-Man used a lot of CGI to give New York a more New York look than the real deal could give. I would imagine people still recognized their New York even when it was CGI.

I thought it was pretty entertaining. I kind of wished that they wouldn't have tried to get nods to so many characters in but understand why they wanted to do it. I really liked the actors that played Gordon and Bullock and think that once this show finds it's rhythm it could be something really cool.

Yeah the cameos were heavy but I read that was on purpose for the pilot and they won't go overboard in future episodes:

Bruno Heller: Obviously, the demands of opening big mean that we will frontload it with lots of characters in front, just to indicate where we're going. As the show rolls on, it won't be villain-of-the-week simply, because these are such great villains and their storylines are so big and epic that it would be short-changing everyone if we did it in that sort of production line way. So there are a lot of big characters in that first episode, but as it rolls on, other iconic characters will be introduced, but in a much more measured way, if you like.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=55606

Edit:

PG-13 is not appropriate for general audiences. You should not take a kid into a PG-13 movie.

Uh, PG-13 is the bread and butter of Hollywood. PG is too lame and R is too violent. Pretty much all of the most financially successful films are PG-13.

[AngelsXDemons]

With Harley Quinn's brief cameo and Easter egg on The CW's 'Arrow' then I suppose we can expect her to show up sooner rather than later in 'Gotham' despite it airing on FOX. My younger sister and her best friend are crazy fans of 'Arrow' and love Harley Quinn from the 'Arkham' video games the latter of which is how my sister discovered Harley. I hope for her sake despite the different networks that Harley Quinn does show up in 'Gotham' although I think that if she does it will be toward the end of season one and the opening episodes of season two.

[Nite-Wing]

I heard Fox has the rights to use every Bat villains besides the Joker and that only pertains to how he's portrayed in the movies.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

Nah DC has to many roof top runners and vigis in their years of publication to do that.Sherlock Holmes is all over the place these days 2 recent movies and 2 tv shows is enough of him.

Precisely because DC has too many roof top runners it would be a good idea to do a different kind of hero. Sherlock has classic ties to DC. Besides the failed series, he has crossed paths with the Elongated Man twice, and once with Batman (twice if you count The Brave and the Bold). He was part of both the Earth-1 and New Earth continuity.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to have him crossing paths with the likes of Vandal Savage, Immortal Man, Etrigan, Shade, Gentleman Ghost, Jonah Hex, Lucifer or a Swamp Thing in Detective Comics backups of a while, prose or regular comics.
I've always though that certain characters like Holmes, Fu Manchu, Tarzan, Frankenstein, Dracula, Robin Hood, Marlowe, King Arthur and Cthulhu should always be part of the DC mythos,.

[RobinFan4880]

Uh, PG-13 is the bread and butter of Hollywood. PG is too lame and R is too violent. Pretty much all of the most financially successful films are PG-13.

That pertains to not bringing kids how? There are far more tweens and adults than children.

[AngelsXDemons]

Precisely because DC has too many roof top runners it would be a good idea to do a different kind of hero. ...
I've always though that certain characters like Holmes, Fu Manchu, Tarzan, Frankenstein, Dracula, Robin Hood, Marlowe, King Arthur and Cthulhu should always be part of the DC mythos,.

[Jphu8414]

Loved Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey, thought they totally nailed their performances and will undoubted be the best thing in the show for me coming down the line.

[doodledude]

Precisely because DC has too many roof top runners it would be a good idea to do a different kind of hero. Sherlock has classic ties to DC. Besides the failed series, he has crossed paths with the Elongated Man twice, and once with Batman (twice if you count The Brave and the Bold). He was part of both the Earth-1 and New Earth continuity.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to have him crossing paths with the likes of Vandal Savage, Immortal Man, Etrigan, Shade, Gentleman Ghost, Jonah Hex, Lucifer or a Swamp Thing in Detective Comics backups of a while, prose or regular comics.
I've always though that certain characters like Holmes, Fu Manchu, Tarzan, Frankenstein, Dracula, Robin Hood, Marlowe, King Arthur and Cthulhu should always be part of the DC mythos,.

I know Holmes has appeared in the DC universe.But as a buisness option it would be better for DC/WB merchandising and probaly more interesting for them to sell their own characters than to just add to the legend of Holmes.If you like Holmes there is plenty of him out there nowadays.They should do something fresh and more current.Plus I'm a comic fan I want them to stuff as many comic characters as they can into every episode!

[Mahes]

Loved Ben McKenzie as Gordon and Donal Logue as Harvey, thought they totally nailed their performances and will undoubted be the best thing in the show for me coming down the line.

Agreed, that was the strength of the show. I'm on the fence about the pilot as there are a lot of good/bads about it. I'm giving it a couple of episodes before I make final decision.

[AngelsXDemons]

That pertains to not bringing kids how? There are far more tweens and adults than children.

Because PG-13 reaches a broader audience. Plenty of kids went with their parents to see Guardians of the Galaxy just as plenty of kids went with their parents to see The Twilight Saga, Pirates of the Caribbean, Sherlock Holmes A Game of Shadows, The Hunger Games. PG-13 attracts kids, tweens, teens and their adult parents just as TV-PG and TV-PG-14 shows like Pretty Little Liars, Gotham, Sleepy Hollow, Once Upon A Time, Beware The Batman and The Vampire Diaries draw nerdy adults and then kids and tweens around the television on the sofa in the evening. It you can get a broader audience of viewers than your production will sell like hot cakes on DVD/BluRay which in turn means your clothing line, shoes, hats, toys, trading cards and other tie-in merchandise will sell really well also.

[Rafa-Rivas-2099]

I enjoyed this a lot. Sure I could heap some criticism on parts of the show but it was no worse than anything else on television.

Somebody missed Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and House of Cards. TV has been getting awesome.

Right? Plus, I can't believe they'd really be allowed to portray Bullock as someone who'd encourage and condone outright murder. The Bullock/Gordon relationship is the core of the show, the solid center, and I can't buy that they'd have Bullock be such an irredeemable and contemptible person.

He is redeemable as he cares for Gordon and he can be easily pushed to do the right thing. However, I'd hate if writers get this version as an influence. He is supposed to be a good guy with a rough exterior, not an insecure mess with a gray morality. His personality is nothing like previous incarnations. The writing is weak, so I wouldn't be surprised if the flanderise him into a full villain.

i thought the show was terrible. Bad acting, Bad Script, if this was supposed to take place 20 yrs ago and they are driving old cars..where do the cell phones fit in. I like the lead actor, and the kid who plays Bruce....everyone else looked like a refuge from a Tim Burton or Joel Schumacker Batman movie. This was the worst, I'm done already

I don't think they reach Burton levels. Just think of how poorly done was the murder scene. It's not brilliant but it's nowhere nearly as awkward.



Nolan, however, was a bit more natural: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4KLs_1G6I

But even cartoons pulled it better than this show. In The Batman, the Alfred scene was better.

Even though Penguin's plan failed he at least had a plan. His role in the show is as far as I know is to make a beef between Falcone and Fish Moony. What do you think was ok about Bullock characterisation. It is probably the word I have the biggest problems with. Riddler has never really been "cool" he is physical weak and social awkward. He has what many would label as "geek". I like the Riddler as a character and he is intelligent but not cool. It is logical why Bullock would find him weird, he thinks Batman is a freak. The brief scene with Nigma doesn't changes this view of him.
.

"At least" doesn't make the cut for me. It's clear that he has a plan and that he will be the main villain (since he has to escalate from henchman to kingpin), but they don't understand the character. He is a narcisistic sociopath, like the Riddler, he can't stop talking about how great he is. See Batman 1966, Batman Returns, Penguin Triumphant, BTBATB and the Arkham games for reference.

The way Bullock talks and his basic reactions is close enough, that's what I call ok. The final scene was not ok and I agree that it was the main problem of the show. They should have used Flass as the partner and Bullock as Montoya's partner. A rival jerk who turns out to be right. In that case, the personality should be the loud temperamental boss, close to Perry White, Dan Turpin (in evil, the Scarface dummy) only sloppier, stubborn and hard to work with.

The Riddler is socially awkward in that he is petulant, narcissistic, and yeas a geek, not a dorky spaz. Gorshin basically created the character, but good characterizations make the riddles sound interesting, not lame and dorky. His attitude shouldn't be eager to please, but looking down at people because they can't think like him. Bullock would find him weird either way.

[Mr. Huston]

PG-13 is not appropriate for general audiences. You should not take a kid into a PG-13 movie.

Parents need to be the ones who decide when their kids should be able to see certain things. Nobody else.

Well, I disagree that these characters need motivations on the get go.I thought the scene with Falcone was pretty alright, any scene with Ben Mckenzie is an instant steal. Not saying the show is gangbuster, but its really not as bad as you're saying it. I guess people online are pretty dramatic.

Or they just have opinions you don't happen to share. Either way.

[lorec]

Figured I'd weigh in on Gotham. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore Batman/Gotham fan, but I know the background, have collected the comics for several years, so I'm more than just an average fan as well. With that said, I liked the pilot. Seeing Nygma, Cobblepot, Ivy, and Selina Kyle before they become Riddler, Penguin, Poison Ivy, and Catwoman has appeal to me. I loved Gordon and Bullock and their interaction. It's just one episode but this could be really, really good.

As a side note, I also some posts about the PG-13 ratings on stuff. I've got a 15 year old daughter and have been taking her to PG-13 movies since she was 9. A lot of it depends on WHY the movie has the rating it has. Is language, violence, blood & gore, sex, etc.? My daughter and I talked very early about what is and isn't real when it came to video games because she took an interest in playing Gears of War. She's been playing the game with me since the 2nd game and has played all of them. But we talk, we communicate and she isn't maladjusted in any way. But that's violence, gore, and language. Game of Thrones is a different animal because of all the nudity and sex....she isn't watching that, and that was her mom's call. Bottom line, it's going to be different for different families, and that's ok.