Gotham - FOX TV Show Discussion

[The Darknight Detective]

Agree about pre-Riddler. He might be fine after all.

[Tupiaz]

No, but her violent tendencies do seem to have some sort of influence on him in this Gotham. (If he is indeed the bad comedian from the first episode that witnessed her ferocious rage....)

Easter egg not more nothing less. As we have seen there has been several different people auditioning at her place. Their will likely be more.

Yesterday's episode was a little bit better, but some things about it seemed really weird to me. The Fish Mooney "seduce me" thing was so random, and both girls had the sex appeal of a paper bag. Making them fight was so stupid and I don't see why any of that stuff was even included in the episode. It had nothing to do with anything. It was obvious that Cobblepot put poison in the cannoli from the start. Why didn't the goons get suspicious when he stared at them while they ate and didn't eat any of it himself? I'm very desensitized to violence, but the murder scenes in this show are unsettling even for me (the guy who was burned alive...). If Fish got less screentime and they turned down the graphic stuff, I think I'd enjoy it more.

She wants a weapon, she wants to go after Falcon. She probably want the weapon to seduce Falcon or someone near him to get information or get close to him. I taught that was quite oblivious from what we know so far.

[ispacehead]

Easter egg not more nothing less. As we have seen there has been several different people auditioning at her place. Their will likely be more.

Seems silly to think they would make a Batman series like this featuring Penguin and
Riddler and catwoman in the first episode, but not give us a glimpse of Mr. J.

Sometimes the obvious truth really is true.

[Randumbz]

Easter egg not more nothing less. As we have seen there has been several different people auditioning at her place. Their will likely be more.



She wants a weapon, she wants to go after Falcon. She probably want the weapon to seduce Falcon or someone near him to get information or get close to him. I taught that was quite oblivious from what we know so far.

But the girl didn't even do anything seductive. She just sat on a table and kissed Fish for a couple of seconds.

[ispacehead]

But the girl didn't even do anything seductive. She just sat on a table and kissed Fish for a couple of seconds.

That whole bit was kinda lame and forced.

Chalk it up to target marketing.

It's an important demographic.

[Tupiaz]

Btw it seems like Szasz will be the villain in the next episode. I would wish that that the villains would stay on longer and not just be villain of the week thing.

But the girl didn't even do anything seductive. She just sat on a table and kissed Fish for a couple of seconds.

She sat at the table very seductive and drank very seductive of Fish glass with an intense look at Fish. If a girl is ever doing that to you she is either up to no good, your lover, a prostitute or all the three things at the same time. You can call it forced, unnecessary and what nut. But compared to the first girl she did a much better job in seducing Fish.

Seems silly to think they would make a Batman series like this featuring Penguin and
Riddler and catwoman in the first episode, but not give us a glimpse of Mr. J.

Sometimes the obvious truth really is true.

He is only supposed to be one of several possible jokers and most likely there will be no joker since he was created by Batman. He is meant to be that could be Joker he is not meant to be Joker. Easter egg because you in a pilot need to show what you will do with the show and have a lot of different characters. The same reason Ivy was in the show who has not been seen since the Pilot either. We wont see Two-Face either but Harvey Dent fighting with inner demons.

[heyevaxx]

The show keeps impressing me.

Negatives first: I can do without the spike in the eye and then the gory close up. Plus the immolation murder was way too much for my taste. No Selina is a big minus!

Pluses: Mooney is cool and I like Jada in the role. Her "casting call" was creepy and disturbing; she carried those scenes well.

Gordon is shining as a sympathetic, hard working cop smothered in crime, crooked politics and police corruption with personal problems to boot. Bullock is great as his frenemy slash partner. Donal is a real gem and pulls off Harv really well.

I like Bruce and Alfred; Bruce can carry a scene despite being 13. I like the rougher Alfred but the actor's voice sounds louder than everyone else. I always turn the volume down for his dialog.

BTW, IIRC Bruce/David are 12/13 [edit: young Bruce is 12 not 13 from the original post] and Selina/Camren are 14/15. I wonder when/if each young actor will go through a growth spurt. He's listed as 5' 86lb and she's 5'1" 98lb - I hope he starts growing soon since Bruce ends up pretty tall (6'2" I think from dc wikia). Camren's resume went from 4'11" up 2" so he better start growing!

The show does a great job with sets, props, etc. Barbara's penthouse, the Maroni restaurant, the police station, Bruce's (only?) room at the mansion, the Richard Gladwell's office etc are all decked out in a sleek, crisp manner with a nebulous 70s/80s/90s feel. E.g. tube monitors and type writers. Not to mention Oswald using a payphone! And boxy 80s police cars.

I liked Gladwell as a pro hitman, he's got (had) a great voice and was intense. I'm convinced that... spoilers:

Oswald hired the hitman to kill council members on both sides of the Arkham vote to spur a gang war. He's always going on and on about an upcoming war, rivers of blood and what not. I don't think it's Fish - she's working her revenge vs Carmine. Pengy is playing the long game of bringing all the gangs down by making them fight amongst themselves while he pulls strings in the background gathering his strength. Very Penguin-ish! (if true)

end of spoilers

Liza (played by Makenzie Leigh), who won the Fish job, was excellent and I like how each singer played the seduce me audition. I thought it was funny how the blond singer just started to nonchalantly take off her earings when she knew she had to fight for the job.

BTW, I don't think the "seduce me" bit was about seduction: it was about having the guts to do something you don't really feel. If Fish wants an attractive woman to seduce the top crime boss in Gotham the woman has to be able to have nerves of steel and be able to be sexual with someone they don't like and/or aren't attracted to. If a woman like Fish with gravitas orders a straight woman interviewing for a job to kiss her, that is super awkward and intimidating. That what Fish needs: a woman with guts who can fake it.

Weird trivia: search Google Images on Makenzie Leigh and the top hit in the upper left is Camren Bicondova! Then a bunch of Leigh pics.

And, wow, the music hits just keep coming! The song that Liza sings is a very slow, sultry version of Spellbound by Siouxsie And The Banshees! I'd love to hear Leigh do the full song in the same style as this episode. Here's Siouxsie And The Banshees doing their classic:
album - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL-NVZ6FQMI
live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7COZEhmeA

[K. Jones]

I think to date my favorite part of the show is just that they use real New York and then add a bit of Gotham skyline in the back and maybe a gargoyle here and there. I mean that's part of the mise-en-scene and we get things like ... well things we'd better not take for granted, like Arkham Asylum actually looking like a late-19th Century Gothic Revival hospital in a Northeastern United States city instead of some fantasy place. I live a few miles from a sprawling late-19th Century massive insane asylum and they don't look like the house from Addams Family or that towering monolith from Begins, either (well, that wasn't bad. The Animated Series was way out there, though).

But I did think it was a nice touch to have a couple crows sitting on the very traditionally depicted Arkham gates. Sure it's subtle foreshadowing of like, Scarecrow, and totally cliche ... but crows are everywhere. In Utica, this time of year, they fill the sky as the sun is going down by the hundreds of thousands, and they stay through winter, perching on the asylum too. Insta-Gothic.

What else? I dig how they're depicting young Bruce and Alfred. Sure, they've gotta shoehorn them into whatever storyline of the week, but they still haven't had any huge developmental missteps. Just a young man who's surprisingly thoughtful and concerned about his parents' legacy and who views detectives positively and thinks he can do what they do. Right on. I wonder if he'll like, go back to school at any point.

No Selina was fine, she certainly doesn't have to be in every episode. I do hope to see her in a less dire straights scenario. She's a street thief with an ear toward what the city's doing but that doesn't mean her life should be dire. I'd like to see Gordon run into her in a more jaunty adventurous scenario.

As usual Jim and Harvey's dynamic is the meat and Oswald gets to steal the show. Fish was fun to watch, the Maroni dynamic was great, the hitman interesting, targets logical, and man, he got killed extra hard by our detectives.

[ispacehead]

He is only supposed to be one of several possible jokers and most likely there will be no joker since he was created by Batman. He is meant to be that could be Joker he is not meant to be Joker. Easter egg because you in a pilot need to show what you will do with the show and have a lot of different characters. The same reason Ivy was in the show who has not been seen since the Pilot either. We wont see Two-Face either but Harvey Dent fighting with inner demons.

You mean like there's one of many possible Penguins? Or one of many possible Riddlers?

Not sure what you're trying to say.

Seems to me like they probably cast the role of "a comedian" pretty intentionally.

This is television.

Not saying we're going to see him become Joker, only that it's pretty obvious that's who they intended him as.

Bad comedian, obviously upset by the violence...who else could he be?

How could they possibly exclude the character in EPISODE 1 in some form on his 75th anniversary?

It would just be silly.

That was totally him, dude.

He even kinda looks like Ledger. (Probably very intentionally...)

[ispacehead]

Wanna know how I got these scars?

[SXVA]

Young Bruce is phenomenal, i'm already down for a spinoff focusing entirely on him.

The villain this week was kind of lame but everything else was good... another enjoyable EP, Gotham continues to shine.

This series is certainly elevating the Penguin character in a way i didn't see the character previously.

[EdwardNigma]

Agree about pre-Riddler. He might be fine after all.

I hope so!

[Tupiaz]

You mean like there's one of many possible Penguins? Or one of many possible Riddlers?

Not sure what you're trying to say.

Seems to me like they probably cast the role of "a comedian" pretty intentionally.

This is television.

Not saying we're going to see him become Joker, only that it's pretty obvious that's who they intended him as.

Bad comedian, obviously upset by the violence...who else could he be?

How could they possibly exclude the character in EPISODE 1 in some form on his 75th anniversary?

It would just be silly.

That was totally him, dude.

He even kinda looks like Ledger. (Probably very intentionally...)

The point is that Joker doesn't have an origin like penguin, Riddler or any of Batman's villains. Therefor we will doing the season see multiple person who could become Joker but it is not certain who it is. So, yes it could be the Joker. But it isn't the Joker per se. if we don't see him ever again it is just a nod and an ester egg that it could be Joker. But the show hasn't directly said it is him.

[PretenderNX01]

Scene chewing only works when its a consistent aspect of the show not when Gordon looks like he's a hard boiled detective in Batman Begins and Fish seems like she's trapped in an Adam West tv show.

So all those comics with a serious Batman and his crazy over the top villains must be terrible to you? In comics his villains still manage to chew scenery.

You could literally cut out all of her scenes and the story would be fine.

Other than when they get information from her? I think right now the plot seem to be developing on their own but will come together more as they progress.

I've been reading Bat's for years he's really supposed to be Batman the minute his parents are killed

And yet other people were convinceed him trying his hand at detective work was taking "bat god" to new heights. Can't please everyone.

You mean like there's one of many possible Penguins? Or one of many possible Riddlers?

Not sure what you're trying to say.

He's trying to say what the producers themselves have said- Joker doesn't have one definite origin and they don't want to give him one. He could be the comedian in the club as that's what "Killing Joke" claimed he was before becoming Red Hood (although the original Red Hood story claimed he worked in a lab). He could be another character as that's what other origins have claimed (the Animated series used the mafia guy origin from Burton's movies (Jack Napier).

He was the pilot episode's Joker reference but he's not the only one that will be in the series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(comics)#Origins

The whole tone of this show is off- it's basic network TV junk.

Yes we get it, you hate all network TV. You've only said it several times in this thread already.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I Fast forawarded all of Fish's scenes. God I hope she dies sooner rather than later. Other than that the show is solid. And pengy is awesome.